HOTW7 Set up thread

[condor223]

My family went home and I've caught up on the plans.

I have tried pitboss, but found it rather quirky. I'd never used that feature, so I would need good destructions to join a pitboss game.

When I tried pitboss, I had to reinstall the entire game to play the next non pitboss game.

I still like the trading only tech you researched, but will go along with the consensus.

Next week the ladder is having their Championship, and I am a tourney director for the first event. Hopefully the event will be nearly finished by the time we start. I want to be in the game!

Someone please contact me in YIM for details in using pitboss! Argh!

[MMC]

Surely you mean 'instructions' not 'destructions'...

And anyway, if you know how to connect to a multiplayer game, then you know how to connect to a pitboss game...

Run Civ4 (or Warlords) -> Main Menu -> Multiplayer -> Direct IP (or Internet for Gamespy games) -> Select the game as normal

You only need to run the pitboss app if you plan to host. As for re-installing, the only quirk I know of with Vanilla PitBoss is that it has a habit of resetting your preferences to default. The Warlords app doesn't have this problem, but has another problem which requires the host to used a fan-patched version, which allows connections, unless you're in the lobby. Other than that, it appears to be fine.

[Colonel_Treize]

Sorry, but I couldn't just stand by and watch you guys stumble around in the dark without a guide.

ozzy suggested pitboss as a way of keeping the game online and producing stats etc. I'm easy either way as I have NO experience with pitboss but it sounds interesting.

Not to be pedantic, but I also suggested to Ozzy that the main benefit of the PitBoss is that you can continue to play some turns during the week as well. A host who has smtp can also set automatic email notifications to go out to players who put their email addy in the Alt-D menu. It works out that any player in any timezone can log in and play thier turn when they recieve their notification. You can host a PitBoss game via Direct IP or the lobby. It is better for connectivity to host via the former.

The drawbacks with using PitBoss are as follows:

1. The Warlords version doesn't work at all, and the player-made fix from civfanatics doesn't allow the host to launch if any human players are in the staging room. However, this can be overcome simply by having all players hot-join.

2. You cannot send an in-game chat message to a player who is offline. You can make trades and other deals, but the chat log is erased every time you log out. You must send all diplomatic communications by other means.

3. Yes, with even just ten players we experienced several artic starts. By narrowing it down to 7 players and switching from standard to balalnced resources, this was corrected. I'm not sure which factor had a greater impact.

4. The host must not input an admin password, because if he or she does, you must trust this person implicitly, as he or she can stop the PitBoss, load the game via Warlords, and input the Admin password to access any civ. PitBoss was not meant to be played by its own host. However, the instructions do describe how to do this.

Have you guys used sim turns before? If you do, you could complete more turns during the week when no two players are on at the same time! As the spirit of this game is fun as opposed to competition, you needn't worry about the infamous double move. If you plan to have people play at any time during the week to also to get in some extra turns, indeed the host's computer must be on reliably 24/7.

The PitBoss should be hosted by the best computer with the best internet connection. I would be more than willing to host this game; my computer is top-of-the-line with a cable-internet connection and I have experience using the PitBoss. Unfortunately, I am currently hosting one. I will find out if a second one can be hosted concurrently.

Feel free to ask me any other questions you folks have regarding PitBoss. I'm a also a pioneer of the PitBoss at the Ladder.

Since you are new, may I recommend reading OzzyKP's guide to Diplogames (It's a sticky in the Civ 4 Multiplayer forum).

Indeed, I have read it thouroughly. As it says in the guide, "always make the best of your location, even when it sucks." I believe that is part of the fun of this style of play, IMHO. Competitive Ladderites, on the other hand, are very fussy about fair and balanced starts for all.

So, when does this game start?

[MMC]

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
Not to be pedantic, but I was the one who suggested to Ozzy that the main benefit of the PitBoss is that you can continue to play some turns during the week as well.

Actually, IIRC I was the first to ask about using PitBoss fpr Diplogaming, before Ozzy mentioned it semi-indepedently.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
A host who has smtp can also set automatic email notifications to go out to players who put their email addy in the Alt-D menu.

The auto-email features rarely work. However, there are several tools which work alongside the PitBoss app to correct this. My personal recommendation is www.civstats.com as I have said before.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
It works out that any player in any timezone can log in and play thier turn when they recieve their notification.

This isn't necessarily a good thing for the Diplogames.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
You can host a PitBoss game via Direct IP or the lobby. It is better for connectivity to host via the former.

There's no real difference between the two.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
The drawbacks with using PitBoss are as follows:

1. The Warlords version doesn't work at all, and the player-made fix from civfanatics doesn't allow the host to launch if any human players are in the staging room. However, this can be overcome simply by having all players hot-join.

I already mentioned this in my previous post.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
2. You cannot send an in-game chat message to a player who is offline. You can make trades and other deals, but the chat log is erased every time you log out. You must send all diplomatic communications by other means.

I believe that messages that are sent to one player are actually saved (as long as the PitBoss is not taken offline), but messages sent to everyone are not saved. This needs to be tested though.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
3. Yes, with even just ten players we experienced several artic starts. By narrowing it down to 7 players and switching from standard to balalnced resources, this was corrected. I'm not sure which factor had a greater impact.

The lower the number of players, the better start you'll get. That is a given. However, some maps also take which civ you choose into account.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
4. The host must not input an admin password, because if he or she does, you must trust this person implicitly, as he or she can stop the PitBoss, load the game via Warlords, and input the Admin password to access any civ. PitBoss was not meant to be played by its own host. However, the instructions do describe how to do this.

I don't believe we'll have trust problems of this kind. That said, however, if we need to change who is hosting, then a password could cause problems.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
Have you guys used sim turns before? If you do, the turns could go even faster when no one is on. As the spirit of this game is fun as opposed to competition, you needn't worry about the infamous double move. If you plan to have people play at any time during the week to also to get in some extra turns, indeed the host's computer must be on reliably 24/7.

Simul turns is one of the few things left to vote on IIRC. I am willing to support it, as it allows a more realistic diplomatic atmosphere. However, since people don't seem to care much about realism when it comes to tech trading, I don't thing people will like this.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
The PitBoss should be hosted by the best computer with the best internet connection. I would be more than willing to host this game; my computer is top-of-the-line with a cable-internet connection and I have experience using the PitBoss.

Speaking from experience (admittedly form the UK, not the US), cable tends to much less reliable than xDSL. Also, I don't know where you are exactly, but usually the best person to host a game like this would be someone in (or close to) the GMT timezone. At a push, the East Coast of the US could do. This is mainly to ensure the host is cetrally located around the world.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
Unfortunately, I am currently hosting one. I will find out if a second one can be hosted concurrently.

Just use the /ALTROOT command, and then set the created civlization4.ini to use a different port.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
So, when does this game start?

Probably about the same time as the first patch for the second expansion... of Civ 7

[Colonel_Treize]

Like I said, I speak from my experiences. The auto-email has worked well in my games. We noticed a big difference between hosting via Direct IP and hosting through the lobby. If you test it out for more than a few hours, you may have noticed that when hosting in the lobby, the game will freeze and disappear from the lobby when a player tries to log on. This hasn't happened in a Direct IP hookup. You personally may have had a different outcome.

I believe that messages that are sent to one player are actually saved (as long as the PitBoss is not taken offline), but messages sent to everyone are not saved. This needs to be tested though.

Like I said, I'm currently hosting one and I have confirmed with other players that each players own chat words are erased when they log off. The messages from the PitBoss are erased if and when the PitBoss exits for any reason. You can still send emails, IM or post, so no biggie.

In the US, the cable internet speed depends on how many customers in the same neighborhood have it. I should have said that a cable internet connection has the potential to be faster than DSL and my host ping is consistently low. I am on the US east coast, across the pond.

I just shared all the information I have from my experiences in order to be thourough. I apologize for repeating any previous information given by others. I'm not trying to move in on anyone's territory.

Probably about the same time as the first patch for the second expansion... of Civ 7

No need to bite my head off, mate. I just took a look at the posts since my first one on page 6 and I thought I could be helpful. I'm new to this site and I didn't know you guys already had a PitBoss expert watching this page. I'm just excited about joining this august group of fellows, is all. No worries, friend.

[Robert]

Deity: we can create a pre-made map that has ballanced starting positions for everyone.

Regarding pitboss: we must just try if it's easier to connect to pitboss then to a normal game for everyone. The pitboss game doesn't need to be online 24 hours per week. I'll host the pitboss, if that doens't work Deity should try. If that doesn't work better then normal then Deity should just host normal.

I'll try to create a pre-made map with a ballanced starting position for everyone and post it here.

[MMC]

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
Like I said, I speak from my experiences. The auto-email has worked well in my games. We noticed a big difference between hosting via Direct IP and hosting through the lobby. If you test it out for more than a few hours, you may have noticed that when hosting in the lobby, the game will freeze and disappear from the lobby when a player tries to log on. This hasn't happened in a Direct IP hookup. You personally may have had a different outcome.

Most reports I've seen say that the SMTP stuff doesn't work, but there have been the odd one or two occasions where it does.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
Like I said, I'm currently hosting one and I have confirmed with other players that each players own chat words are erased when they log off. The messages from the PitBoss are erased if and when the PitBoss exits for any reason. You can still send emails, IM or post, so no biggie.

I'll concede that point. However, I believe CivStats.com is able or will be able to read the chat log and post it (possibly as email).

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
In the US, the cable internet speed depends on how many customers in the same neighborhood have it. I should have said that a cable internet connection has the potential to be faster than DSL and my host ping is consistently low. I am on the US east coast, across the pond.

xDSL (especially RADSL) is just the same; more users = slower speeds. Also my experience with quality of service (such as how long it takes an engineer to fix a downed line) is that xDSL over a telephine line is better than cable. Telephone lines in the UK are often back up before you noticed they were down. Whereas the cable companies might send out an engineer within a week if the whole street has problems.

Even so, I must admit to not knowing how good (or bad) it is in the US. Although it's a pity my Dad passed up the chance to get 10Mb satellite broadband on the cheap a few years back (when 512kbps ADSL (or 256kbps cable) was top-of-the-line).

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
I just shared all the information I have from my experiences in order to be thourough. I apologize for repeating any previous information given by others. I'm not trying to move in on anyone's territory.

No worries, I was just trying to point out that it is sometimes a good idea to read a thread from the beginning if you're new to the thread.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
No need to bite my head off, mate.

I wasn't. I was directing that comment at all the bickering that's been going on about rules and stuff.

Originally posted by Colonel_Treize
I just took a look at the posts since my first one on page 6 and I thought I could be helpful. I'm new to this site and I didn't know you guys already had a PitBoss expert watching this page. I'm just excited about joining this august group of fellows, is all. No worries, friend.

I know my posts may sometimes sound scathing, but I promise they're not, unless I specifically say otherwise. All-in-all, it's good to see another PitBossian as it takes some of the technical stuff off my shoulders .

And my final comment should have probably been my first, but you didn't really make much of an entrance, to be honest. Therefore I'll say it here:
I bid thee welcome to Apolyton, Diplogaming, and the world of the criminally insane .

[OzzyKP]

Hey, just checking in while I'm on vacation. I'll be back on Wednesday.

The time slot looks good. I'm still in favor of trade your own tech twice + conquering.

As for the map, I'm with Deity. Lets just play a huge, balanced, terra map and let the chips fall where they may. The only thing we should restart for is if people are right on top of each other like in HOTWV. Beyond that, no amount of desert or tundra should trigger a restart. Play it where it lands and quit your whingerering.

[Toni]

I agree with Deity and Ozzy

[Frank Johnson]

Here's one I got recently. ^_^

[Prussia]

All of this disscussion is giving me a headache to read...

Someone has to just make a decision.

[deity]

OK, on the day we go with random huge Terra balanced map with low sea level and no 'whingerering' [echoes from the past ozzy!]

pitboss doesn't work with Warlords so I'll host up as normal Direct IP on the day. Can't wait!!

[MMC]

PitBoss does work with Warlords. Cyber, Lzprst and myself have got it working. We were going to ask you to join, but you were away.

[deity]

And the rules in a nutshell:

* bad form to kill a civ, particularly in early stages; BUT everyone sgould focus on defence else they will lose cities

* always look to diplomacy and deals to take advantage of

* TORaCTT is the voted preference on tech trading. So tech trading will be allowed in the game mechanics. You are allowed to trade any tech you researched to 2 other civs only. In addition you can request techs from another civ that you have attacked as part of any peace deal. The conquered civ can ONLY offer techs that they themselves have researched. (Keep a notpad of each tech you learn so that subs can be clearly informed)

* Vassalaged civs are free to receive all techs that their master has learnt and vice versa

* When any game mechanics victory condition is achieved it results in the game ending - optional points and voting may follow

* Unit gifting - If allowed it can not be used to upgrade to another civs special unit

* Post at least one solid paragraph in the story thread each week covering the key events encountered by your civ - more if you like, plus pictures etc. (Personally I think the stories should relate to events, strategy and psychology in the game rather than internal fantasies about the workings of your own civ...)

* No quitting! If there is a major crisis or misunderstanding stay online in the game; and we hold the game up for discussion and decision.

[deity]

Originally posted by MMC
PitBoss does work with Warlords. Cyber, Lzprst and myself have got it working. We were going to ask you to join, but you were away.

I got it working with ozzy too, whatever that means but someone told us to stay away from it for Warlords.

Does someone need to leave the game hosted 24/7 for this to work? CT says it does - Welcome BTW

---

Just reading back over the thread I'm now totally confused as to whether Warlords pitboss works!?

We are definitely playing Warlords with the latest patch if there is one (in 2 weeks max I hope!)

I can just see 12+ players turning up on the day and we waste the whole session getting pitboss going... LOL