Next Patch Status? Anyone Know?

[Locutus]

C++ isn´t that hard to learn is it?

If you've never programmed a line of code in your life? HELL YEAH it is! You really need a pretty thorough understanding of programming concepts and algorithms, how computers work on a low level, how to do memory management, etc. And Civ4 isn't exactly a little toy to play around with to learn how C++ works, it's a full-fledged program with probably a million lines of code -- not a good place to start learning.

Most books and classes about programming for beginners use Java, Basic, Python or something like that as basis, because C++ is just overloading newbies with waaay more info than is really helpful when you're new to programming. If you want to learn C++, start with Python first, once you got that under your belt you can maybe think about if the extra headaches that learning C++ will give you are worth it, especially considering that a lot of what you can do in the SDK you can do in Python as well. If you really start at zero, count on at least a year of pretty dedicated learning (much of which will not be Civ-related), for most people probably more, before you can handle the SDK. Of course, some people can learn it faster, but then quite a few people will never get there at all. You'll have to be pretty dedicated about it.

So the SDK is mostly for people who already have considerable programming experience, preferable in C or C++.

[Solver]

I concur with the above. There are some people who say there's nothing wrong wth learning programming starting with C++, but I never understand them. In C++, you always need to not only be able to come up with the algorithms and that stuff, but also deal a lot with lower-level issues, such as memory management. If you're not familiar with the general programming practices and don't feel comfortable with at least simple programs, then C++ would overwhelm you.

Python is a good choice for learning programming because it's a relatively easy language, and you can produce some result without having to write too much code - whereas a common newbie complaint about C++ is that you have to do a lot to produce any satisfying result. And, of course, Python is heavily used in Civ4, so learning that would already give you quite a wide range of modding abilities.

[Gunter]

Originally posted by Locutus


So the SDK is mostly for people who already have considerable programming experience, preferable in C or C++.

First of all thanks about answers,

anyway let me make few short considerations/critics ;

let me say that if I had a " considerable programming experience " I would have written my favourite game by myself,like Sid did in the past.

secondly, what do you mean for " you can already add as many units as you want " ? .

If I would like to rerstore what you burned out . , f.i. nuclear subs,cruisers, cruise missiles,introduce A10..etc. how am I supposed to do that ? ( graphic apart ) giving no special abilities but simply certain strenght values and letting AI using them properly ??

In addition,why havn't you released simply an editor like Civ III and you will release a tool only for few people instead ?

I believe only 2,5% of Civ players can be considered good programmers , I for example am an IT network man but Python is definetly not my favourite breakfast ..... .

I havn't bought Civ IV yet for different reasons, the biggest one is the incredible and dramatic lack of units , even less than the gorgeous Civ III, but this a personal opinion.

Anyway, as you may notice, I havn't still abandoned the idea to play one day my IV th episode of the series , actually it depends only on the possibility to customize it, trying ( in my intention ) to reavvicinate ( is this a word ? ) it to what Sid did in the past and you have improved on different aspects but you also disgregate in some others.

As I already told, in real life I am definetly a pacifist but I played every Sid game and everyone of these games had a strong war component,even RR Tycoon when you faught vs competitors injecting your rails into others' ones..........Well, you removed one of the main feature that made Civ a masterpiece , the chance to annihilate the enemy in thousand different powerful and sadic ways like hardly bombing enemy workers ( my tiny mod ) .

Please give us back lost units and the possibility to add new ones also very well used from AI .

Gunter

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Locutus


If you've never programmed a line of code in your life? HELL YEAH it is! You really need a pretty thorough understanding of programming concepts and algorithms, how computers work on a low level, how to do memory management, etc. And Civ4 isn't exactly a little toy to play around with to learn how C++ works, it's a full-fledged program with probably a million lines of code -- not a good place to start learning.

Most books and classes about programming for beginners use Java, Basic, Python or something like that as basis, because C++ is just overloading newbies with waaay more info than is really helpful when you're new to programming. If you want to learn C++, start with Python first, once you got that under your belt you can maybe think about if the extra headaches that learning C++ will give you are worth it, especially considering that a lot of what you can do in the SDK you can do in Python as well. If you really start at zero, count on at least a year of pretty dedicated learning (much of which will not be Civ-related), for most people probably more, before you can handle the SDK. Of course, some people can learn it faster, but then quite a few people will never get there at all. You'll have to be pretty dedicated about it.

So the SDK is mostly for people who already have considerable programming experience, preferable in C or C++.

I might just stick with learning Python for now... My only previous programming experience is a beginners course in Visual Basic a few years back...

[Solver]

secondly, what do you mean for " you can already add as many units as you want " ? .

If I would like to rerstore what you burned out . , f.i. nuclear subs,cruisers, cruise missiles,introduce A10..etc. how am I supposed to do that ? ( graphic apart ) giving no special abilities but simply certain strenght values and letting AI using them properly ??

XML. With XML file editing only, you can add as many units as you want, as long as you create no special new abilities. The AI will use them, too. If you add a new ship, for example, the AI will use it. If you want a nuclear submarine to load nukes on, the AI of course couldn't do that.

I believe only 2,5% of Civ players can be considered good programmers , I for example am an IT network man but Python is definetly not my favourite breakfast .....

2,5%? I think it's far less. I think that under 1% of players have any considerable programming experience.

In addition,why havn't you released simply an editor like Civ III and you will release a tool only for few people instead ?

An editor would make life easier, but it isn't strictly required as you can edit all files by hand.

I really think you're very wrong, though, for not buying Civ4. It's far, far better than Civ3, and the amount of units doesn't really matter there. Quality matters. The combat system is much more interesting, and you need mixed arms. As for customization, yes, you can customize Civ4 more than any other game. Civ3 was, in fact, a joke as far as customization goes.

[fed1943]

Did I understand it right?Are we,customers,waiting for a tool that only 1%can take profit?In the computers'business programmers are the sellers,not the buyers,isn't it?Right,Firaxis business is decided by Firaxis itself,but so was in other corporations that are no longer.
Best regards,

[Locutus]

Just because only 1% of the users can mod the SDK doesn't mean that 100% of the users can't take advantage of all the cool new stuff that 1% comes up with...

[Nikolai]

Indeed. I certainly look forward to the release of the SDK, even though I csan't use it mysef. All that yummy stuff that will come out of it!

[padillah]

Originally posted by Zoid
C++ isn´t that hard to learn is it?

Aha! So YOUR the guy I run around and clean up after.

Yes, C++ is rather difficult to learn how to write well. It's open-endedness lends itself to a lot of bad practices that can ruin an application.

It's like piano - yes, you can learn the list of keywords easily but that's far different from playing a concierto.

Tom P.

Feed the world
Save the whales
Free the mallocs

[fed1943]

Just trying to understand(as I know nothing of computers).
Locutus installs the SDK and,with it,creates a game and posts the save.I install the SDK and that save.Does it work in my computer as in Locutus'one?If so,I shall wait until Christmas with no claims.
Best regards,

[Solver]

Locutus creates a DLL. You put in your mod directory, and get a version of Civ4 with another two dozen features .

[Adagio]

You don't need to install the SDK, all you need is to copy the files for the mod, into the needed directories (usually the mod-makers includes a readme file, telling you exactly what to do)
You don't download a save, but instead you download some extra files, that you don't really need to know about, except how to install them

[Nacht]

One problem I see is that there will be no way to combine different mods.

Let's say person A makes a mod that adds a nuclear submarine while person B tweaks the worker AI so that it doesn't love to destroy full grown towns, there will be no way to use both mods together.

[Solver]

Modmakers usually take care of that by combining small mods, or popular mods.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Nacht
One problem I see is that there will be no way to combine different mods.

Let's say person A makes a mod that adds a nuclear submarine while person B tweaks the worker AI so that it doesn't love to destroy full grown towns, there will be no way to use both mods together.

I believe for most part, it wont be a problem, with mods that are very different. With your mentioned mods, I don't think it would be a problem (though we'll first know for sure when it's released)

In cases where two mods have something in common, e.g. if one makes a mod where the AI can create nukes, while another one makes a mod that makes the AI better at wars, then it could have some side effects when using both mods