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The Devel's Workshop 1a - Beyond the Veil (After the Slingshot)
(neither do I understand how the americans could have offered me a defensive pact when they did...that still baffles me!).
-=Vel=-
Great thread -- haven't finished reading all the responses yet, but I didn't want to forget to mention this.
AFAICT, the AI will offer you pacts/agreements as long as you have the appropriate tech. This happens most commonly with open borders. AI will offer you open borders the turn that you discover it (often before the screen telling you that it's finished even pops up).
The undeserving maintain power by promoting hysteria.
Now into my 7th replay, beginning to get it. Up to 4 cities, 4 Praetorians, captured a barb city that will encompass the 2nd source of Iron when it expands, 4th city founded where the Marble is located, 2 Warriors converted to Axemen, so far so good. Oh, and completed the slingshot without much ado, now working on the "middle game".
A question: On page 2 of the thread, 1370AD, you mention building "CH's" in all your newly-captured cities. For the life of me, I can't figure out what a "CH" building is. Church? Would you enlightnen me, please?
A question: On page 2 of the thread, 1370AD, you mention building "CH's" in all your newly-captured cities. For the life of me, I can't figure out what a "CH" building is. Church? Would you enlightnen me, please?
Courthouses! You've got to build them in newly captured cities ASAP to diminish the increased maintanence costs of your newly expanded empire.
Originally posted by platypotamus
Courthouses! You've got to build them in newly captured cities ASAP to diminish the increased maintanence costs of your newly expanded empire.
To quote Homer Simpson, "Doh!" (sound of hand smacking forehead...) Of course. Thank you for that.
I just finished a similar game. My plan was originally for a domination but got changed in a hurry.
Rome/Prince/Standard/continents/Normal speed. I had to delay my first city as I had found a nice flood plains valley with two gold hills a couple tiles away. I did the slingshot with two cities and captured a barb city for the third. I used the captured city to chop rush a bunch of praetorians and went after the chinese (the only ai on my continent). I then used these to launch an invasion of the americans that I found on an island to the south. In the end I fought two wars each with the Chinese, Americans and Japanese (one to weaken, the other to wipe out.)
I had just finished off Japan when I noticed that Asoka had build an SS Casing! I play at night in my bedroom while my wife is sleaping with the sound turned off so I often miss the auditory warnings that something has happened. I checked the victory conditions and found that he had finished three casings! I had not even started the Apollo Program! It started to look bad but I had something he did not: A lot of good production cities. My empire was about 4 times the size of his. I build Apollo in the ironworks city and started to make as many parts as I could while rushing to research everything. I finished the space ship in 1958 for an Agustus Ceaser win! Checking in world builder at the end I found that he was three parts away from the space ship but only building two of them.
My gnp was 1189 (or something like that) and was first in everything except approval rating. What helped alot was that when I had conqured the americans and japanese they had spamed out farms and cotteges and I did not pillage any of them. When the cities came back "On Line" The grew like weeds and dumped a bunch of beakers and gold into the coffers. The part I find real interesting about this game though is that my best commerce/science city was not my capital on the flood plains but the barb city I captured early on. It was making 100 more beakers/turn than Rome at the end.
I mostly lurk these forums for excellent strategic information. Since your articles have been excellent in this regard I thought I would clinge in and give my huge thanks
I only play Noble at the moment but may try Prince soon. You have definitely helped me improve my skills.
Well, I finally finished my game from this starting position. Domination Victory in 1658 AD after a mere 89 hours, 26 minutes of play.
Is that why they call it "Marathon"?
No, that's why I tell people that I play with all the speed of a greased glacier.
But seriously folks...I want to thank Vel for getting me started on this game which led to my first victory at Monarch and my first game at Marathon. It was quite a ride. I also kept notes as detailed as Vel's, but I doubt anyone wants to see an alternate history to Vel's path.
I do. At this point, I lack the time to play Marathon games myself, but reading about them is a fine substitute. Playing marathon is like using a magnifying glass on the game mechanics. It makes the effects of your choices more visible and is excellent for teaching purposes.
Of course, I could understand that after 89 hours and 26 minutes you are a little spent and may not wish to add a few more hours to write about it as exhaustively as Vel did. Maybe a short comparative summary, after you've done some rebonding with friends and family?
AAR of “Devel’s Workshop I” featuring the CS Slingshot.
4000 BC - Early moves are identical to Vel's.
3880 BC - Got Bronze Working from a hut, meaning that I followed exactly the same path and timing that his warrior did. As Vel said, "I'm not knocking it!" Revolted to Slavery.
3780 BC - Warrior has same encounter and bearly survived.
3600 BC - Beat wolf, gained Woodsman I.
3500 BC - Beat lion, started 3 turns healing.
3480 BC - Agriculture, started Mysticism. Heard rumor: "Buddhism founded."
3400 BC - Unlike Vel, no hut, no map, no copper. Oh, well.
3340 BC - Hut yields gold and warrior spots copper deposits.
3260 BC - Killed wolf on Marble Hill
3200 BC - Finished exploring The North, spotted fish.
3080 BC - Mysticism, started The Wheel, farmed Corn, killed lion and took Woody II.
3040 BC - Panther frightens worker.
3020 BC - Spanish scout shows up, our first contact.
2980 BC - Rumor: "Hinduism founded."
2920 BC - Completed Warrior, started another.
2900 BC - Panther takes Woody II to 1.0 in jungle next to hut.
2860 BC - Forest grows on grass/river near Rome. [Nice, but maybe save the forestation until after the deforestation.]
2800 BC - Wolves approach freshly-healed warrior as if the gods don't want Romans to take that hut.
2780 BC - The gods relent, the wolf dies, the hut yields a map of the south including a distant hut.
2760 BC - Gold mine in operation.
2740 BC - Moving with escort to chop at Rome 3,3. Completed 2nd Warrior. Southern hut yields a warrior.
2680 BC - The Wheel. Start Meditation. "FoundWarrior" on a hill survives a Panther.
2660 BC - Headline: "Woody II Whips Wolf"
2620 BC - Another panther takes Woody II to half strength for 6t healing. WII eats wolves for breakfast, but has trouble with panthers. Rome completes 3rd Warrior (not counting FoundWarrior) and starts first Settler.
2580 BC - 1st chop yields 90h toward Settler.
2540 BC - FoundWarrior meets Spanish Archer, amicably. Started 2nd chop outside border.
2520 BC - Indian Archer appears near Rome.
2460 BC - FoundWarrior in turn barely survives Panther, awarded Woody I.
2440 BC - American Warrior appears.
2420 BC - Woody II and FoundWarrior exploring to the southeast.
2400 BC - There goes the neighborhood! (The first barbarian warrior appears, between Woody II and FoundWarrior.) Chop yields 75h.
2380 BC - First Settler done, start Worker. Showing Inability to Learn by Example, I failed to scout the way for my Settler! Woody II fortifies on jungle hill to bait the barb.
2360 BC - Barb takes the bait and dies. Meditation, start Priesthood. Now here's the first significant break with Vel: I'm going to build my second city much closer to Rome. After that decision I face a similar choice: build on Wine to keep a flood plain for food, or build on the flood plain to keep the wine (for bonus and trade). The second choice puts cows in range.
- I choose the flood plain site which also reduces the overlap with Rome to two tiles.
2340 BC - Founded Antium! Now I dare you: Don't think of the Wizard of Oz! Started Obelisk to get border bump to cows. Started road for travel speed though river already connects for resources. So I've used tighter spacing and it will be a LONG time until Rome has a copper mine.
2280 BC - 2nd Worker done, start another. FW fortifies on a jungle hill as bait.
2260 BC - FW survives bait assignment. 2nd worker helps the first finish the road, now both will chop.
2180 BC - Priesthood, start Writing. Wake my forgotten fortified warriors (both Woody II and FW).
2160 BC - 3rd Worker done. We have 5 warriors, start a 6th while planning to shift to Lib once Writing is done (now 19t @ 100% because I'm accidentally working a forest tile; shift to flood plain for food & commerce). Woody II finds Barcelona, the first known alien city.
2120 BC - Road to Antium complete, workers scatter to chop. 6th Warrior done, start Barracks. Forest grows on Antium river/grass. Can work that tile or another river/grass (hammers vs commerce).
2080 BC - FW finds the American border as WII explores Spanish border.
2060 BC - WII finds the junction of the Spanish and American borders (wide enough to slip through but I'm neither that curious nor that foolhardy); WII turns for home leaving FW to finish exploring. 2nd Warrior, defending a chopper, survives a barb attack with 0.1 yet.
2020 BC - Chop finishes Obelisk in Antium, start Oracle.
1990 BC - At this point Vel cut research to 90%; for now I'll maintain 100% and -1gpt. Writing in 8t.
1970 BC - Our noble FoundWarrior is foully slain by a barb warrior, and eulogized as follows: "Rats." First chop for Oracle, now only 340t.
1960 BC - 2nd chop for Oracle, so merely 249t. Start mining the grass/hill for Antium. Start extending road toward copper.
1930 BC - Sighted barbarian city SE of Rome in the forested hills.
1900 BC - Road done: Antium 8,7. Workers head for Rome en route to forests outside city radius.
1890 BC - Writing, start Pottery.
1880 BC - In position for two chops. Saw barb border along coast to the SW. Switch Rome from Barracks to Library. STATUS: GNP 1st (23/17), Prod 7th (7/14), Food 5th (16/29), Pop 3rd (49/55), Army 7th (21/37), Land 6th (30/46). Tiny lead against Vel in Prod (7/5), and transient lead of 27 Pop because I haven't started pop rushing.
1870 BC - Denied Open Borders to Spain and India. Started 2 chops for Library. We have 1 warrior in each city plus 3 as guards.
1840 BC - Completed Mine at Antium. Now working 2 river/grass (growth in 36t and Oracle in 237t) vs 1 river/grass + 1 hill/grass/mine (72t/60t). I'll stick with growth for now.
1830 BC - Started 3rd chop for Library.
1800 BC - To be fair and consistent, denied Open Borders to America.
1790 BC - Pottery, start CoL. Two chops leave Library at 219/270 (9t).
1750 BC - 3rd chop finishes Library, assigned 2 scientists, research is now 31 bpt. This is one turn before Vel and 3 more beakers, which this instant is 34t to CoL vs 38t. Started cottage on river/grass for Antium.
1710 BC - Antium's border grows, so now we have cows, but not Animal Husbandry. Damned things are just wandering around out there.
1690 BC - 2 chops yield 180h, giving Scientist/Oracle/CoL in 44/40/29t.
1680 BC - Start road from the NW corner of Antium's fat cross toward eventual site for copper city.
1670 BC - Rome finishes Barracks, starts Warrior.
1640 BC - S/O/C in 39/35/23 vs Vel's 40/218/23 (before any chops).
1630 BC - Cottage ready, start another on the shared grass/river tile.
1590 BC - First trained Warrior gets Combat I, started Granary. Declined Open Borders with Spain. NW road reaches culture border, now extend one more to reach planned city site.
1580 BC - Start irrigating a plain for Rome.
1570 BC - Rome gets Granary via pop rush, started 7th Warrior for likely barb trouble.
1560 BC - Road completed, started another for planned cow pasture.
1550 BC - Research now 90% and +1gpt, now S/O/C in 30/26/22.
1510 BC - Shared cottage ready, pasture road ready.
1470 BC - S/O/C now 20/16/9 vs Vel's 22/18/14, mostly because Rome is working a gold mine.
1430 BC - Plain farmed, CoL in 7t.
1420 BC - Rome completed 3rd trained warrior, starts Settler for copper city (so a LONG way behind Vel in access to copper). Start 2nd mine for Antium. Shift production from 2nd cottage to raw wine to get S/O/C of 17/7/6.
1400 BC - Farmed flood plain, start stub of road toward stone via incense.
1360 BC - Code of Laws, started Alphabet. Founded Confucianism, did not convert. Note that Vel got CoL first. We'd like to send our Missionary to Spain, but what are his odds of surviving the barb-infested jungles?
1350 BC - ORACLE! Civil Service! Sling completed! Started Temple & Anarchy. Barb archer appears on the hill NW of barb city Shangian.
1340 BC - Bureaucracy! Rome now 38 beakers, Alpha in 25t, Settler in 29t even with 2 scientists, GS in 10t.
1330 BC - Finally accept an offer of Open Borders, this time with India but soon with Spain.
1300 BC - 2nd mine for Antium, Open Borders with Spain (who unfortunately founded Buddhism...not so unfortunately if I plan to take his holy city, but would I do that??)
1280 BC - 2nd Roman mine
1240 BC - Merit Ptah born in Rome, founds Academy; the scientists are sent back to do "real work." Now 47 beakers, Alpha in 12t, Settler in 8t, so all is right with the Roman world...except for the barb archers at the borders to the SW & SE. We have neither Copper nor Archery (nor Iron).
1230 BC - SW barbs cross the border, but SE barbs don't, yet. Woody II and Woodsman I confront barb archer, defending in forest behind river. Missionary has found Seville, Madrid, and the Indian border...and now converts Madrid. The Spanish capital sees the light! Our holy recon shows that Spain has marble, copper, and 2 gold.
1220 BC - Woody II is victorious, with 0.4/2 left. Alphabet in 10t as we hope for tech trading. STATUS: GNP 1st (35/18), Prod 6th (14/26), Food 7th (22/37), Land 5th (53/76), Army 7th (29/73). OK, who painted that big target on the walls of Rome? Vel has higher GNP (38) but stronger rival (26); equal food but weaker rival (30); slightly lower Prod (11/25). My goals are basically identical except that I'm still a long way from both copper and Archery.
1210 BC - Isabella demands end of trade w/India, we refuse.
1200 BC - Start clearing the way for forthcoming Settler.
1180 BC - Antium's border grows.
1160 BC - Rome Settler, start Monastery.
1150 BC - Open Borders with America. Now we face the same decision that Vel faced 1150 years ago: place the copper city on the coastal flood plain or on the non-coastal vines? The latter offers more food, but the first offers the coast! Take the beachfront property! Start building a road to the copper.
1140 BC - Founded Cumae on the coastal flood plain. We need a border bump, so Obelisk in 45 or Library in 135? I'll assume one chop and then some pop, so I went with the Library.
1120 BC - Alphabet, start Iron Working. Temple in Antium (pop rushed), start Granary. Barb worker (?) visible down along the coast. Confucianism spreads to Cumae, conveniently.
Ahhh, an old habit from the days of EU and EU2....I need to fire that game up again!
"Family"? 
Woody II fortifies on jungle hill to bait the barb.
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