Why Civ IV is doomed to be a hit? (the very smart move by Firaxis PR)

[Sartaq]

Civ IV will sell because it's Civ IV.
I don't know about anyone else around here but I stopped caring what magazines, online reviewers, webmasters, moderaters, beta testers etc. think about games long ago.

The proof is in the playing, YOUR playing, nowhere else.

[notyoueither]

Best point of the thread, Sartaq.

[Fidel]

i must admit, being a part of EU beta team, that i was not impartial to the game. i was proud that i was among beta testers, and genuinely thought the game was good. hell, i still am proud that i have been on the team on one of the greatest come-from-behind strategy favorites of all times. we tested hard, and still there were patches to come, we could not catch everything, including memory leaks.
but, the gameplay was solid, it was reasonably balanced and some of the suggestions (just like those of the fans) made it into EUII.
there is NO objectivity if you feel good about the game. you feel like it is your baby to some degree. certainly not to the degree that you defend it rabidly, but surely to the degree that you are really passionate when defending it from flaming attacks.

[notyoueither]

Hell, they didn't need to get me into the beta to get me to argue with flamers.

And contrary to popular opinion, I see the warts in what is out now. Bugs, design mistakes (IMO) oversights...

If someone asks a question, I will answer it. If someone posts a 'fact' that is incorrect, I will point out the problem. Sometimes, I'll even be overtaken by the pace of the game's development and be incorrect myself.

The point of a forum like this is discussion. We learn from each other. I would think that having people around who have a working knowledge of the game from day one, and perhaps a better understanding of the aims, would be seen as a benefit. But apparently that view is not shared by all.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Blackship
A story:

Restaurant reviewer with his own newspaper column is asked by local restaurant chain, which the reviewer has frequented in the past, asks said reviewer to help in the development of a new menu for their next theme resaturant. Interestingly, the reviewer notices that all his colleagues too have joined in this endeavour...the gangs all here! Notices a few local chefs in the group...wonders why more aren't involved (or maybe doesn't), but c'est la vie.

{snip}

Someone dares to ask..."why were all the restaurant reviewers in the development group"? Is that really the way it's supposed to be done? Isn't that like shooting fish in a barrel?

End story.

I haven't seen the game yet, but this post is a flawed analogy which does insinuate that the betas are being paid to give a positive opinion to the public, when they're not.

To correct the analogy : The betas are not a collection of paid magazine reviewers, but more a collection of the restaurants most regular and enthusiastic paying customers who are being consulted on the new menu.

The post carries a similar cynicism as the OP, and Aeson is very right to defend himself as he did.

[Anguille2]

Originally posted by Nailfoot
This game needs no defending, as it stands on its on merit better than any game in recent (or possibly non-recent) history.

Lol....i am still waiting for a better game than Master of Orion and/or Galactic Civilization. Maybe CIV V?

[Anguille2]

Originally posted by Sartaq
Civ IV will sell because it's Civ IV.

That's indeed where the problem is. As it's got no competition, Firaxis could sell toasters, call them CIV and everybody would still be happy. I am not saying that CIV IV is bad (i don't have it), but i guess it wouldn't be bad if they had some competetion (like a Call to Power III for example)....maybe then, they wouldn't rush out a game not fully tested (compatibility and so).

My two cents.

[alva]

As it's got no competition,

While I enjoy TBS - not the only genre I enjoy btw - I'm not going to play a bad one, I rather play a good FPS game than a poor TBS, or even none at all.

Would they get away with one less game, probably...not time and time again though.

[yin26]

Originally posted by Anguille2


That's indeed where the problem is. As it's got no competition, Firaxis could sell toasters, call them CIV and everybody would still be happy. I am not saying that CIV IV is bad (i don't have it), but i guess it wouldn't be bad if they had some competetion (like a Call to Power III for example)....maybe then, they wouldn't rush out a game not fully tested (compatibility and so).

My two cents.

For me, the next Heroes of Might and Magic will represent some competition. And although its graphics are several years old now, I'm still keeping tabs on the development of Ages of Man. There are also just simply a ton of other games in different genres or on different platforms (the next Morrowind on X-box 2, for example).

So there's TONS of competition for my gaming time!

[padillah]

Originally posted by VetLegion
But would you call something crap after being involved for six months of more?

I'm a developer and I've been involved with software that's taken YEARS to develop and I'm here to tell you... it's trash.

If you spent six months making something better, yes, you get emotionally invested.

If you spent six months trying to get them to fix it and listen to you and they won't... you get MAD!

I look at this as Firaxis knew who to go to to get the answers that they should listen to. They didn't want someone that would harp on the units being bigger than the entire city but left in pollution. That's not much help.

As a professional beta tester I'm just jelous that I didn't stick around enough to get into this.

Tom P.

[Anguille2]

Originally posted by yin26
So there's TONS of competition for my gaming time!

What i meant is that there's no other TBS dealing with earth. There are many Space TBS (MOO, SE, GalCiv...) but only one Earth TBS (CIV) which i find strange.

I have plenty of other games too which i am enjoying (and don't have time playing . )

[Solver]

I find VetLegion's point that we would be risking out status as beta testers by saying negative things about the game ridicilous. Jesse and Soren are not stupid to start kicking people off the team for saying bad things.

I still don't see what exactly is wrong with this release - a number of people is experiencing problems of varied severeness, which is, frankly, normal. That happens with every game, and to the best of my knowledge, the people experiencing the problems are a minority, as it should be. There's nothing like 50% of users having tech issues. The other part is people experiencing issues due to not meeting the system requirements. Without saying anything about Intel, T&L and such stuff, I do not think it sane to blame the developer when you can't run the game on hardware that was clearly mentioned as not running it.

[quinalla]

Sure, they get good PR for the game IF the game is good, which it is. Beta testers will slam games if they are bad or released early just like any other player.

And I think it is great that threads with simple problems to fix (turning the grid on anyone, I've seen that is tons of threads) are answered quickly to help people enjoy the game.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Lemme run this by real slow, since it was either ignored or too wordy last time:

1- Many (in fact the staggering majority) of people invited were brought by people who have little/no interaction with Firaxis PR. (I know, I sent a lot of the invites myself.)

2- Firaxis WANTS to hear the negative from its testers.

3- Firaxis WANTS to fix things people say are wrong.

Is that too complicated for you? There's no conspiracy. And for the record, not every prominent name was pulled... and none of the other prominent names are complaining, either. (Curiously, you yourself seem to be rather short on complaints, other than to scream "conspiracy.")

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Anguille2
Firaxis could sell toasters, call them CIV and everybody would still be happy.

What insulting rubbish. Maybe I shouldn't even be feeding this troll.