Why Civ IV is doomed to be a hit? (the very smart move by Firaxis PR)

[MarkG]

Re: Why Civ IV is doomed to be a hit? (the very smart move by Firaxis PR)

Originally posted by VetLegion
Having all those people beta test has taken much of the sting from the community. I have been reading the forums these couple of days, and I can't but notice that most critiques and accusations get "covered" by an eloquent post from Solver or Locutus or someone else from that list.

and civers should be glad that we can have two unpaid "staff" members who on their own free time are answering tech/"why is X this way" questions

seeing something like that in a negative way is worrying...

[Imran Siddiqui]

however what these posters do is help stop an avalanche of mee too posts before they get a chance to roll, as well as preventing a general "negativity slant" from developing.

That'd be a good thing, buddy. The "negativity slant" that developed with SMAC was unjustified, IMO.

[Bill3000]

A negative slant generally is not justified. The amount of whining that the average gamer does is preposterious, and generally uncalled for. I see it all the time in MMORPGs, and I still see it in plenty of other of games. Personally, I'm glad that there were so many beta testers from the online community - it shows a true willingness to listen to the fans and people dedicated to the series, not just yet another iteration to a franchise. That, in my opinion, is what seperates Civilization IV from the earlier games.

[VetLegion]

Re: Re: Why Civ IV is doomed to be a hit? (the very smart move by Firaxis PR)

Originally posted by MarkG
and civers should be glad that we can have two unpaid "staff" members who on their own free time are answering tech/"why is X this way" questions

seeing something like that in a negative way is worrying...

Where did I say helping on tech issues was a bad thing? Don't twist my words please, I was very clear.

[kittenOFchaos]

Re: Why Civ IV is doomed to be a hit? (the very smart move by Firaxis PR)

Originally posted by VetLegion
Has the community been quietly pacified by Firaxis?

Having just read the list of betatesters in this civfanatics thread, I am surprised to see that owners of both biggest civ sites, as well as many moderators, other staff and most prominent and respected players and posters have been beta testing the game.

Besides the good side of that which is obvious -- thanks to their efforts we should all benefit from a better game , there is also a downside.

Having all those people beta test has taken much of the sting from the community. I have been reading the forums these couple of days, and I can't but notice that most critiques and accusations get "covered" by an eloquent post from Solver or Locutus or someone else from that list.

I feel that many issues people have with the game are subjective and not objective, thus discussing them won't help any (random seed thing, or tank-spearman), however what these posters do is help stop an avalanche of mee too posts before they get a chance to roll, as well as preventing a general "negativity slant" from developing.

They are in fact helping Firaxis and defending the game to which they are not any more impartial to (having spent much time on it).

Since most people that don't buy on whim or word of mouth buy judging from printed magazine and big mainstream site reviews, and since those reviewers always check what the communities are thinking about the games they review -- is Civ IV doomed to be a hit, even if without merit?

Thoughts?
(*wears his best flame resistant suit*)

They only forgot (or couldn't be bothered) to give VetLegion his cut, the uncontrolled and uncontrollable

I wasn't on the CivIV beta-test, but I as on the CivIII PTW/Conquests one and that didn't stop me telling it like it is and knowing many of the CivIV beta-testers it wouldn't stop them neither.

[VetLegion]

I do admit that for one copy of Civ IV I would be sold

Anyone?

[Aeson]

Post on this topic from this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141616

Copied here to allow for it to be responded too.

Originally posted by VetLegion
Heh, this is exactly what I was talking about (that Firaxis made a smart move). A negative post and WHAM two beta testers rush to respond in detail.

Yes, Firaxis made a smart move by listening to their fans in an attempt to make the best game they could.

Your insinuation that I am now a "yes man" for Firaxis is rather insulting though. Do you have the first shred of evidence to offer to back it up? Is my posting style in regards to CIV different than my posting style in regards to Civ III? Am I making unsupportable statements in support of CIV, or valid ones?

It should be easy for you to prove your point if it is valid. My posts are here for you to see. My reasoning regarding the OP is here in this thread for you to refute if you wish. The search is right up there for you to dig up my past posting history... Yet you've offered no evidence at all.

Having problems reading?

[Franklinnoble]

This is a brilliant thread.

Those of us who are having problems are practically getting RIPPED by the "elitists" around here. The same folks I expected to be on MY side are telling me my hardware sucks on my 6 month old laptop and I'm just S.O.L.

Firaxis made the smart move. These people won't risk their status as beta testers by saying anything negative about this game, or the obviously botched release.

Objectivity has been lost. If these mods and posters want any respect from me, they can decline future requests for beta testing. Otherwise, they're just tools of the developers, and they're not doing what really needs to be done for the community.

[VetLegion]

It seems you have problems reading, since I haven't written that you are a "yes man". You were a beta tester and I predict that because of that you are not impartial to the game. Solver said he isn't. You say you are? OK with me, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise, but I will hold my opinion. BTW., you should note two things:

1) I am careful not to make claims I can't substantiate. I have made not a single one so far.

2) My suggestion about custom titles was made in passing and I am not pushing for it or anything.

I really don't see what I should discuss with you. I don't think you are objective, you think you are. We agree to disagree. OK, carry on.

[yin26]

Having a robust beta test team that included the most dedicated players is also a bit of a risk if the development doesn't go well. The silence from them would be deafening. Of course, the pay off is equally clear -- solid input while changes can still be made and, yes, built-in PR.

Also, I am a notorious critic of gaming companies taking short cuts, and I simply don't see that with Firaxis and Civ 4. However, I will say that now with the public release of the game, we are all part of the development team regarding patches and X-packs. Let's organize our feedback and watch the response.

In many ways, the clock should start ticking now that the public has the game. Let's see how Firaxis moves forward.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
This is a brilliant thread.

Those of us who are having problems are practically getting RIPPED by the "elitists" around here. The same folks I expected to be on MY side are telling me my hardware sucks on my 6 month old laptop and I'm just S.O.L.

Please provide quotes of beta testers saying your hardware sucks....

[Willem]

Originally posted by yin26
Having a robust beta test team that included the most dedicated players is also a bit of a risk if the development doesn't go well. The silence from them would be deafening. Of course, the pay off is equally clear -- solid input while changes can still be made and, yes, built-in PR.

Also, I am a notorious critic of gaming companies taking short cuts, and I simply don't see that with Firaxis and Civ 4. However, I will say that now with the public release of the game, we are all part of the development team regarding patches and X-packs. Let's organize our feedback and watch the response.

In many ways, the clock should start ticking now that the public has the game. Let's see how Firaxis moves forward.

Who are you and what have you done to Yin?

[yin26]

LOL! Well, the jury is still out on the post-release support. I hope Firaxis comes out swinging.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MarkG
Please provide quotes of beta testers saying your hardware sucks....

That's probably this one by Locutus:

The T&L issue is a hardware requirement, it is necessary to be able to play the game, this was announced over 6 months ago. If your graphics card is so crappy it doesn't support T&L (and this is true for many Intel cards -- if you're a gamer you shouldn't have an Intel card to begin with), you're out of luck. It's simply not possible to include T&L support for this game without rewriting large sections of it, killing a couple of features and taking a big hit on performance. If it was possible it would've been done from the start.

I used it in a post to try and convince him the black terrian/cheshire cat leaders are hardware issues. Unfortunately he has his mind made up that it's a software bug. It seems his laptop only has a Radeon 7500 and he's not happy about things as they are.

[MarkG]

Radeon 7500 does have T&L support

and yes, Locutus should be more sensitive with non T&L chips