Second Leader in a Civ

[sophist]

Or Julius Caesar, who killed about a million Gauls and enslaved about the same number. Or Peter the Great's brutality in putting down rebellions (just read Massie's excellent bio). Good point on recentness. So, what's the half-life on evil? Are there any evil leaders from the 1500s - 1800s that were evil and are considered for inclusion?

[Solver]

Napoleon? Not quite in the same league maybe, but he's a bloody conqueror too, after all.

The "half-life on evil" is hard to define, a good indication is simply whether there are people who would get offended. Obviously, virtually no one is going to be offended by Napoleon now, 200 years after him. It takes a while for people to forget recent conflicts, after all. I don't think that WW2 will stop being a sensitive subject soon. There are many people still alive who fought in WW2, not to mention, of course, their children - so there are thousands of people who lost their fathers in WW2 now. I think it can well take another 2 generations for WW2 and its leaders no longer to be such a sensitive subject.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Solver
Maybe not as en masse as, say, Russians, but yes. Then again, 'purchasers' are never taken into account when developing .

That's actually an interesting point... it shows that there's another, hidden disadvantage to pirating - your tastes are not taken into account when games are developed. Even if pirating doesn't prevent the release of games, that effect would persist...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Solver
Napoleon? Not quite in the same league maybe, but he's a bloody conqueror too, after all.

But he was a really f'in awesome/brilliant bloody conqueror.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


But he was a really f'in awesome/brilliant bloody conqueror.

...And the British hated him so much for the rest of the 19th Century that they refused to use him as a leaderpiece in their
"Civilization Chess" game.

Ok, so that might be a bit farfetched. But Siegfried Meier, creator of the popular 19th Century Prussian Boardgame "Siegfried Meiers Zivilisation," certainly refused to use Napoleon.

Ok, ok. I'll stop.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
That's actually an interesting point... it shows that there's another, hidden disadvantage to pirating - your tastes are not taken into account when games are developed. Even if pirating doesn't prevent the release of games, that effect would persist...

Woot... that means offensive Chinese stereotypes with minimal backlash.

[Solver]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


That's actually an interesting point... it shows that there's another, hidden disadvantage to pirating - your tastes are not taken into account when games are developed. Even if pirating doesn't prevent the release of games, that effect would persist...

Tastes of pirates are taken into account because they can post on boards just as normal purchasers do. However, tastes of players in regions where most games are pirated are not taken in account, such as the thought of Russian and Chinese players, where over 90% of the games played are pirated. So the developers don't usually think about the requirements/interests of those markets. Especially Chinese, where there is virtually no market, as such games are actually illegal.

So I can see why no one has many doubts about Mao if Civ is going to be banned in China, and no one in the entire country then would legally own it.

[Kuciwalker]

True. I guess the disadvantage is only to entire nations...

[Xorbon]

You know, with all this discussion, I forgot what the original topic of this thread was.

I voted for Egypt, though Greece, Rome, and Russia are also good candidates for a second leader. I just wouldn't want to see Hatshepsut be the only choice for Egypt.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Xorbon
You know, with all this discussion, I forgot what the original topic of this thread was.

I voted for Egypt, though Greece, Rome, and Russia are also good candidates for a second leader. I just wouldn't want to see Hatshepsut be the only choice for Egypt.

No kidding. Those are the four nations I think are most likely to get a second leader as well.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Xorbon
You know, with all this discussion, I forgot what the original topic of this thread was.

Wait, this thread had a original topic?

I agree with your pics for countries that need 2nd leaders. I hope we get more, but I'll take Egypt, Rome, Greece, and Russia in addition to those we already know.

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Wait, this thread had a original topic?

I agree with your pics for countries that need 2nd leaders. I hope we get more, but I'll take Egypt, Rome, Greece, and Russia in addition to those we already know.

Well, if there are only 26 leaders, that means that only two of those will get extra leaders. My preference is Egypt and Russia, but I wouldn't mind Greece and Rome.

[Kingof the Apes]

I would love to see every civilization get two leaders, but I suppose that will have to wait until the modding.

I suppose the best choices would be Egypt and Rome, with Egypt's second leader most likely be Ramses, and Rome's to be Hadrian, perhaps?

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Kingof the Apes
I would love to see every civilization get two leaders, but I suppose that will have to wait until the modding.

I suppose the best choices would be Egypt and Rome, with Egypt's second leader most likely be Ramses, and Rome's to be Hadrian, perhaps?

I agree on Ramses. As for Rome, there's a whole bunch of good choices.

Augustus - Not sure how different from Julius his in-game behavior would be. Same with Tiberius and Claudius.

Caligula, Nero - Absolutely psychotic. Rome would be completely unpredictable.

Trajan, Hadrian, Vespasian - Constructive, but also militant.

Marcus Aurelius - extremely well-rounded. All around good emperor.

Then again, I think Russia has more diversity in behavior, and is more likely to haver Ivan the Terrible - psychotic, and Peter or Catherine - constructive.

[Kaak]

Why don't they just have two leaders for all the civs? The ones people don't know might inspire them to google them and learn something...