Pope excommunicates the Mafia

[Ben Kenobi]

No one disputes that what it says, just what it specifically means.

Thank you. Where's the evidence that Matthew 19 means that gay marriage is part of God's plan?

[Sava]

No it's not. You just think it's there.

Again where does it say marriage can only be between one man and one woman?

I love how he requires different levels of proof for different beliefs. Gay marriage being bad? Oh, let me just horribly misinterpret a straightforward statement. Yay bigotry justified.

Weed (and all other plant use) being acceptable? WELL ****, I ought to just ignore the countless of shockingly clear passages that say "do what ever the **** you want with plants" because Jesus never explicitly specified weed as being acceptable. Because, you know, "plants and herbs" just isn't good enough.

But "male and female"... that's code for "no gay marriage".

[rah]

That wasn't what I originally asked.

I asked you to provide a verse from Jesus that specifically says that marriage is just one man and one woman. Something you have yet to do.
You've posted the quote (which I knew you would) that make you think that is what he said and what you say the church uses to base it's opinion.

But it does not do what I originally asked you to provide. You seem unwilling to understand that concept.

[Ben Kenobi]

I love how he requires different levels of proof for different beliefs.

We've established already that the text:

1, is Jesus.
2, states clearly that "God created men and women".
3, states, "and for this reason, a man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife".
4, states that both husband and wife are male and female."

You're left with defending the position, that despite what it actually says, that this means that marriage is not exclusive to men and women.

weed as being acceptable. Because, you know, "plants and herbs" just isn't good enough

People use dope to get high. This isn't a particularly difficult preposition.

[rah]

I love how he requires different levels of proof for different beliefs. Gay marriage being bad? Oh, let me just horribly misinterpret a straightforward statement. Yay bigotry justified.

Weed (and all other plant use) being acceptable? WELL ****, I ought to just ignore the countless of shockingly clear passages that say "do what ever the **** you want with plants" because Jesus never explicitly specified weed as being acceptable. Because, you know, "plants and herbs" just isn't good enough.

But "male and female"... that's code for "no gay marriage".

And yes, Sava that is why I asked that question.

[Ben Kenobi]

I asked you to provide a verse from Jesus that specifically says that marriage is just one man and one woman.

Matthew 19 fulfills this request. Jesus states that:

God created men and woman, and for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and will cleave to his wife.

Something you have yet to do.

It's been done already.

You've posted the quote (which I knew you would) that make you think that is what he said and what you say the church uses to base it's opinion.

It's the argument from natural law, and it's all there. Why is Jesus using Adam and Eve as the model for marriage? Because that's what God intended. If God intended for men to marry men, why did he create Eve?

[Ben Kenobi]

Also, again, rah, are you willing to concede the point that it's not my argument, nor my invention if I can provide evidence for this?

And again, "I say the church teaches this", are you willing to concede that the church does in fact teach this if I can provide evidence?

[Sava]

It's been done already.

All you've done is show us how much your bigotry makes you intellectually dishonest.

[rah]

And your point? Rah argued that interracial marriage was a 20th century novelty. Are you really going to defend this point too Molly?

Actually I didn't. I later clarified that I said it was more common today after you pointed out a few exceptions. Do you disagree?

And I love how you say a novelty, like it's cute but can be disregarded. More bigotry on your part?

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually I didn't. I later clarified that I said it was more common today after you pointed out a few exceptions. Do you disagree?

Ok, great. It was a dumb point, now we can move onto more salient ones.

And I love how you say a novelty, like it's cute but can be disregarded. More bigotry on your part?

I'm arguing it's nothing new nor unique to the 20th century. Boomers didn't invent it though I can see why a boomer would think they invented it just like they invented sex and landed on the moon.

[Bereta_Eder]

What if he/she doesn't have a mother or a father? Can he then not be married because he can't actually leave them?
In justapostiction in greek wife (or husband) it's syzygos. Literally meaning the one who lifts the weights (of life) with you. It depicts NO GENDER. Is this the word used or is it another? (there are other words for mate that do depict gender). Although I guess it's difficult to search now and is probably a weak argument.

Eve was created from adam's ribs so she can bust them from time to time

[rah]

I'm arguing it's nothing new nor unique to the 20th century. Boomers didn't invent it though I can see why a boomer would think they invented it just like they invented sex and landed on the moon.

So you're saying that it was just as common back then as it is now?

And I love how you have to throw in the term Boomers to use as an insult.
I don't consider Boomer an insult. You Douche.

[molly bloom]

And your point? Rah argued that interracial marriage was a 20th century novelty. Are you really going to defend this point too Molly?

Alexander married for political reasons. So did Chinese emperors, European kings and queens, Egyptian pharoahs and so on.

You'll note the Bible saying you shouldn't marry outside your ethnic group for fear of religious 'contamination'.

You'll also note the alarmingly high number of wives in King Solomon's life- simultaneously.

So the notion that marriage was limited to your narrowly circumscribed definition of it, is untrue.

What is allowed in marriage contracts and the reason for them, changes from society to society and age to age.

Do you believe in incestuous marriage ? The Ptolemies of Egypt did.

How about arranged marriages ? Multiple wives ? Multiple husbands ? Child marriage ? Bride price ? Bride 'kidnapping' ?

The marriage of women to Christ ? The marriage of a city to the sea ?


Marriage is a lot more interesting, varied and complicated across history and cultures than your tight-arsed notion of it.

[Sava]

Do you believe in incestuous marriage ? The Ptolemies of Egypt did.

How about arranged marriages ? Multiple wives ? Multiple husbands ? Child marriage ? Bride price ? Bride 'kidnapping' ?

The marriage of women to Christ ? The marriage of a city to the sea ?

Yes, but only cousins. No. Yes. Yes. No. Yes. Yes, but only cousins.

[Ben Kenobi]

What if he/she doesn't have a mother or a father?

Look at it from the kid's perspective. He's got a mother and a father, even if he doesn't know who they are.

Can he then not be married because he can't actually leave them?

No, the same would apply to an orphan - the concept here is that the child is leaving his parents to form his own family with his wife.

In justapostiction in greek wife (or husband) it's syzygos. Literally meaning the one who lifts the weights (of life) with you. It depicts NO GENDER. Is this the word used or is it another? (there are other words for mate that do depict gender). Although I guess it's difficult to search now and is probably a weak argument.

Great question.

"ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν: οὐκ ἀνέγνωτε ὅτι ὁ κτίσας ἀπ' ἀρχῆς ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς; 5 καὶ εἶπεν: ἕνεκα τούτου καταλείψει ἄνθρωπος τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὴν μητέρα καὶ κολληθήσεται τῇ γυναικὶ αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἔσονται οἱ δύο εἰς σάρκα μίαν. 6 ὥστε οὐκέτι εἰσὶν δύο ἀλλὰ σὰρξ μία. ὃ οὖν ὁ θεὸς συνέζευξεν ἄνθρωπος μὴ χωριζέτω."

γυναικὶ seems to be the word rendered as "wife".