Apolyton Fantasy Football!!

Japher · July 8, 2004, 13:29

If it's going to be a big deal I'll go first...

Berzerker · July 8, 2004, 17:46

We can either go with 1/4 pt per rush or 1 pt per 10 yds rushing, I think the latter is better. As someone pointed out, 15 rushes with 10 yds shouldn't be worth 7.5 or even 3.75, it should be worth a ride on the bench

Let's put some suggestions into actual game stats to see if we're asking for trouble:

QB 18-30 1 TD, 1 int, 230 yds =
18pts + 6 - 2 + 4.6 = 26.6

RB 22 rushes for 100 yds, 1 TD, 2 rec for 20 yds =
10 + 6 + 2 + 1 = 19

WR 4 rec for 80 yds, 1 TD = 4 + 6 + 4 = 14

That's with passing 1pt per 50 yds pro-rated, 1pt per 20 yds rec, and 1pt per 10 yds rushing and 1pt per completion and reception.

I think that looks like good balance, some recievers get like 8 catches and 120 yds with multiple TD's and that puts them way up there with an average QB week.

I also think return yds should be 1pt per 20 yds, this makes some of the weaker recievers who run back kicks and punts worth attention. Otherwise it'll be a mad rush for the handful of elite WR's.

Imran -

I'm against individual defensive players. Defensive players individually is very touch-and-go. Since they don't have the ball in their hands, its very spotty what they'll do. You can be relatively sure that a QB or RB or WR will do good or bad against a certain D. However, you have no clue how an individual defender will do.

Last year was the first time I played with Defensive teams, and I LOVED it! I would consider going to back to individual players to be a step back. HUGE step back.

Defensive players don't need to touch the ball, they'll be touching the guys who do touch the ball. I don't understand that argument.

The tendency is to take LB's since they get most of the tackles but DB's who get both tackles and INT's also come into play, especially if they do some kick returning. The line isn't as important but guys who get plenty of sacks are valuable.

What would a league be without us disagreeing on something.

Vote on it?

INT's worth 3 pts?
Fumbles -1
Fumbles lost -2
Fumble rec +3

Berzerker · July 8, 2004, 17:51

Anyway, defensive players instead of team defense broadens the game. I didn't care for a bunch of people all rushing to get the 8-10 decent defenses. So, if we do vote on it I'll vote for individual defensive players. If we followed your logic, why not just eliminate individual offensive players and have team offenses too

Dis · July 8, 2004, 20:15

I'm fine either way on team defense or individual. Team defense just seems easier.

I say this because I picked Tampa Bay Defense last year, and they didn't do much for me.

Invidual players are hit or miss. There's little use on drafting them early. Some defensive players have like one good year and then taper off (michael strahan

). Often I just pick up defensive guys off the waivers. It is very difficult to draft a top notch defensive guy who can consistantly put up good numbers.

Frozzy · July 8, 2004, 20:31

Or perhaps a team defense AND a solitary defensive player?

reismark · July 8, 2004, 21:29

I say this because I picked Tampa Bay Defense last year, and they didn't do much for me.

I assure you, that will not be happening again.

*collective groans from the rest of the room*

That's right... WE'RE COMING BACK, BABY!

Berzerker · July 8, 2004, 21:36

Well Diss, doesn't sound like you've played in a league with individual def players. Just get yourself a couple MLBs like Keith Brooking and you'll get a consistent 10 tackles a week from each

Last year at FFZ Ming got a DB for Chicago who ran back kick offs and got him some really nice points during the season.

So far we have 1 vote for 3 defenders and 1 vote against with Diss not caring.

Speak up people or forever hold your peace... If we're roughly divided we'll go Imran's way since I'm not really that passionate about this. I care more about 1 pt per 20 yds for returns...

Berzerker · July 8, 2004, 21:37

Reis, do you want team defense or individual defenders?

Zopperoni · July 8, 2004, 21:45

I don't really care either. Given the choice, I'd lean slightly more towards individual defense, but it's all good.

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 00:22

I care more about 1 pt per 20 yds for returns...

Make you a deal. Team Defense for Return points

. I really don't like individual

. Team Defense is the one thing I'm REALLY passionate about, above all other stats in the game.

QB 18-30 1 TD, 1 int, 230 yds =
18pts + 6 - 2 + 4.6 = 26.6

If you add in the 0.5 penalty for incomplete passes it equals 20.6 points, which brings it more in line with the others, but just a little bit higher (a straight 1 for 1 completion to incomplete would make it around 14.6).

Berzerker · July 9, 2004, 01:40

That's fine with me...

As for the 1 or 0.5 penalty for incomplete passes, I wouldn't mind a 1/2 point too much but a full point would be pretty severe. That's 0 points for going 10-20. And with 1 pt per 50 pass yds, a QB with no TD's could still have a decent day and not get squat in points.

QB 250 yds, 16-32, no TDs = 5 pts if an inc = -1
with an inc = -0.5 that would be 13 pts

WR 4 rec, 60 yds, no TDs =7 pts
WR 4 rec, 60 yds, 1 TD = 13 pts

That still seems weighted a bit too much toward the WR

QB 250 yds, 16-32 = 13 pts
WR 60 yds, 4 rec, 1 TD = 13 pts

Recievers aren't penalised for dropping balls so why penalise QB's, especially when the incomplete pass could have been a dropped ball? On the other hand, we had some pretty big tallies by QB's last year at FFZ, like 60 points for 1 game. So maybe a 1/2 point penalty would bring the passing game down more in line with the rest of the offense.

Sloth · July 9, 2004, 03:53

Tried to join this morning but.....the league is full!!!

Berzerker · July 9, 2004, 07:08

Uh oh, a second league with 3 defenders?

Don't go away Sloth, methinks we'll have 2 poly leagues...

Stuie · July 9, 2004, 08:09

Originally posted by Sloth
Tried to join this morning but.....the league is full!!!

Same here. Apparently Imran overbooked... I thought he worked for the government, not the airlines.

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 08:30

Recievers aren't penalised for dropping balls so why penalise QB's, especially when the incomplete pass could have been a dropped ball?

But we are giving the QB credit for his recievers making great plays and making the catch, so there should be an offset. A QB who goes 30 for 70 shouldn't just get 30 points. The 40 incompletes should factor in and bring the score in line.

--

Oh, and I didn't 'overbook'. I just gave out the invites to whoever asked me for them and the first 12 to sign up were in. Berz has set up another league.

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 08:32

Btw, I don't see why we can't have a 14 team league

.

We'll just have to jiggle the positions and shorten the bench, but it easily can be done? What do you think?

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 08:36

This is what the positions for a 14 team league would look like to me

.

QB
RB
WR
WR
TE
RB/WR
K
Team D

4 Bench (smaller bench prevents stockpiling players, so if a RB gets injured, there are people on the waiver wire so you aren't totally left out of the cold).

-Jrabbit · July 9, 2004, 08:40

So, only 12 rounds of drafting? I thought we were looking at 14-15. Not being familiar, I'll ask -- Is this fewer active players or shorter benches? Do the extra teams make THAT much difference?

I like Kalius' idea of Team D + one individual defender.

I agree w/Berz that a full-point penalty for incompletion is too penal.

1 pt//10 yds rushing sounds good.

Two leagues will provide a great way to playtest the different ideas floating around. We could input all teams numbers into the two rulesets and see what kind of difference it would make in game results.

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 09:48

No, it'll be 14 rounds now (at least), because we decided we'll cap THIS league at 12.

Berz just noticed that we can ONLY set 15 offensive catagories. I added completions, incompletions, and return yards. We can't put in rushing attempts because that would put us over. I think 1 point for 10 yards works better anyway.

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 10:22

Anyway, I'll be away for the next week (well I'll be online a few times during it), so if we start a draft it'll be on the 19th on the Off Topic.

This is presupposing no other rule changes are asked for

.

-Jrabbit · July 9, 2004, 10:56

works for me

Imran Siddiqui · July 9, 2004, 12:32

*punt*

Imran Siddiqui · July 11, 2004, 23:17

Speak now or forever hold your peace. If no other changes to be made, draft will be in preliminaries on the 19th, then we'll get the draft order and start picking players.

gjramsey · July 12, 2004, 10:11

I am good, let's get this thing going!

Imran Siddiqui · July 12, 2004, 16:49

It'll be on the 19th, I'll be away for a bit.

Who wants to do the draft order?

Frozzy · July 12, 2004, 19:34

I'll use the random button on my calculator if you want...

Japher · July 12, 2004, 21:28

The 19th is good for me. I gots me queue all lined up... prepare to suffer...

How is the order being determined?

Berzerker · July 12, 2004, 22:21

Imran, are the current league settings the ones we are using?

Imran Siddiqui · July 12, 2004, 23:00

Yep... AFAIK. I may change whether it is a TE or WR/TE, but everything else seems to have been debated through and through and no one has anything else to add.