I was lied to; this game isn't unique at all!

[One_Dead_Villy]

exactly ..amen brotha

[Jack_www]

I dont know why Triphosphatase and others like him hate RON so much, but I just downloaded the demo today and I think the game is great. Much better the EE or any other RTS game I have played in a long time.

No one said it was not going not going to be a RTS game.

The Things I like about this game after playing for the short time that I have been able to are:
1.) No more click fest crap. Meaning that spead will not equal victory, that slower players have a chance at winning if they use their brains.
2.)Less micromangement of workers. They work more automatic then before.
3.)I like the supply wagons, finally you have to supply armies in a RTS game.
4.)They put borders in the game, which i like a lot.
5.)Finally a RTS were you acitually are building cities, gives me a feel of civ game but in real time.
6.) Multiplayer games dont take a long time(as oppose to civ, which takes forever and i hate that)

This game is great, and I am really happy that Big Huge Games and Microsoft dont pull the same stuff that Infograms and Quicksilver did with MOO3.
I am sure to pick these game up when it come to the stores, and I am very happy they put a demo out and did it before the release of the game.

[GoblinToe]

Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy
wrong...as BR said the French has wagons that heal, and other can gain that ability with Wonders.

Oh, so we have to play the french to get unit healing? Who wants to play the French?!

Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy
That was the complain EE people had with their bombers
that it only could drop ONE lousy bomb, and even if it had more gas it had to return home. If I sent a bomb a short distance I expect it to hang around and help the attack and not just go home even though it hardly used up its gas and bombs.

This is ridiculous. You'd rather have your bombers acting like complete morons and circling overhead of their target regardless of the damage that they're taking until they fall to their death? I see you are a stickler for realism.

Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy
the hot kets are competely configurable...learn to play the game properly

You're right, I missed this somehow. It seems the hotkeys are totally configurable.

Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy
This comment is really baffling, and completely ridiculous. and shows this person hasnt even played teh game. NOT only does it have queuing, but RoN also has infinite and patterned queuing. (which means u can set a building to produce units in certain order and ratios) indefinitely, as long as u have resource. It also lets you assign them to pre-set army groups right from the factory.

Yes, it does have an infinite queue button, however, that option is turned OFF the second the building comes under any sort of fire from an enemy. So if you have a factory on the front lines, your infinite queue is useless! Also, if you run out of resources then all your factories that were set for infinite build orders automatically turn infinite build OFF!

For those of you that haven't played the game, during battles, and especially in the late game, you are constantly running out of resources as you order factories and barracks to build dozens of units. You have to hammer on the build buttons until you hear the inevitable GONG sound which means you can't build anymore due to lack of resources. Once that happens, all your factories and barracks reset their infinite build orders to off.

These two facts make make the queue option useless for me, because it's just more micro management to go to each individual factory and turn queuing on again, assuming I can even remember which ones I had set to queue!

Add to all this the fact that the waypoint system is the most basic of any RTS with zero innovation, and also the inability to give retreat orders to units after taking X amount of damage, and what do you have?

A mediocre been-there-done-that RTS.

The Conquer the World campaign is interesting once, but I think most people will find that the complete lack of depth to the campaign really just makes this an endless stream of battles, so why not just play quick battles or multiplayer? The CTW campaign system was what I was most interested in with RoN, but it fell far short. There is nothing really there other than a Risk clone board game with uninteresting draw cards and army pieces you move around the board.

So lets sum it up...

1) No hero units
2) No experience gain during battles for any unit
3) Horrible waypoint system that most won't even use.
4) Terrible air unit AI (loitering around enemy fire like idiots until death)
5) No unit healing unless you play the French or build a massive wonder or micromanage garrisoning!!)
6) A severly broken queuing system which might be patched, but who knows.
7) Idiot unit AI in general (no option to retreat after taking X amount of damage)
8) Sub par graphics.
9) The joke of a diplomacy model. (You can't even tell when your enemies or allies make you offers because you're too busy in battle, and when they do, they always want 6 times the amount of a resource you have when your empire is 10 times larger than they are! Haha. Why even add this into the game is what I kept wondering.)

The above issues drop RoN down into medicore standing, and after only a few games people will realize that there is nothing new here. It's all been done before. The sad part is that RoN does it all again with worse graphics. Empire Earth's graphics are far superior to RoN's.

Some things I do like about RoN, though...the formations are really done nicely. Also, the borders with attritions were executed wonderfully. Some of the unit animations are nice to watch. The three infantry soldiers per units make for much nicer battles visually. The non combat unit AI is good, such as workers and caravans...build them, and forget about em, and they will find a job most of the time (not always), which I like.

Well, that's really it. Sub par graphics, lackluster sound, been-there-done-that game mechanics and interface, not to mention the game is a slug even on a above average system which is inexcusable for an RTS with such lowend graphics. All this adds up to me taking RoN back for an exchange.

Maybe a decade after Total Annihilation has been released some developers will clue in on what magical options made that game so wonderful, and start building RTS games with that recipe. Until then, remember that we have the power of the dollar. I for one refuse to support such an incredible lack of innovation in a genre that has been so played out as RTS gaming has.

It's time for something new already!

[Bridger]

1) Hero units are the core gameplay of RTS games now? I didn't know strategy games lost points without them? 0_o?

2) "Veteran Units" has always been a stupid idea in any RTS game. Why? It propegates the "rich become richer and poor become poorer" situation. While it was put in the game to solve the "lets just send units on a suicide rush!" problem it created a problem where the winner of a battle would have units up to twice as good as his oponant who is building new units. This is a flawed system and i'm glad it's not in RoN.

3) I've never had problems with the waypoint system, what are you speaking of exactly?

4) They hang around and BOMB THINGS, they don't just circle. Watch closer next time and you'll see that they bomb things till the run out of ammo/fuel then return home.

5) How hard is it to garison after a battle? This literally takes 2 minutes, Hotkey your pikes into 1 barracks, your archers into another, cav go in stables, seige goes in factory and anything left over goes in you castle (you have one don't you?). Then 30-40 seconds later you got fully healed units. Is this really so hard?

6) I agree the infinate queue is broken, and i hope it gets fixed in a patch, but you can still hotkey your barracks to a button and queue them mid battle with a few keystrokes. That's what i do.

7) Well they arn't going to let the computer do EVERYTHING for you. Just because the redundant micromanagement was taken out doens't mean they should take out the strategic micromanagement also.

8) As oposed to what? EE? So far the only game i've seen with beter graphics is C&C: Generals, and you know what? Graphics is all Generals has. In that regard i'm glad they didn't go for a pretty engine, takes away time from doing better things, like balancing and creating a solid core game.

9) The core of the game is multiplayer, don't confuse yourself thinking single is selling the game. No RTS since AoK has sold on it's singleplayer.

[One_Dead_Villy]

Originally posted by GoblinToe
This is ridiculous. You'd rather have your bombers acting like complete morons and circling overhead of their target regardless of the damage that they're taking until they fall to their death? I see you are a stickler for realism.

Maybe I am, but that doesnt mean you cant order the planes to go back. Its a matter of preference. Not a fault of the game.

Yes, it does have an infinite queue button, however, that option is turned OFF the second the building comes under any sort of fire from an enemy. So if you have a factory on the front lines, your infinite queue is useless! Also, if you run out of resources then all your factories that were set for infinite build orders automatically turn infinite build OFF!

Then dont put your vulnerable buildings near the front, and keep yourself stocked with resources. I mean lets think about this a moment. Maybe one should think about how to run their empire so bad things dont happen rather then rely on the AI to do everything for you. If you want the computer to do it all for you, turn on AI coop mode. It'll run your empire for u, requeue units whatever, and all u have to do is adjust this and that. The other point is....name another RTS that even has this feature.

Add to all this the fact that the waypoint system is the most basic of any RTS with zero innovation, and also the inability to give retreat orders to units after taking X amount of damage, and what do you have?

Where have there ever been an RTS that has such a thing? A lot of people dont want units retreating in the middle of a battle on its own. How about you keep you eye on the battles and run them away when u think they need to retreat. It maybe an interesting expansion feature to help some of the (I have to assume TBS have been spoiled with).

1) No hero units
2) No experience gain during battles for any unit

Both are not necessarily good ideas for RTS's You have generals which are close to a hero unit. In gameplay effects they would probably do the same thing anyways. Just rename the Generals to "Hero".

4) Terrible air unit AI (loitering around enemy fire like idiots until death)

Your opinion only. I think EE's planes had terrible AI, and RoN is brilliant cause it doesnt bug out with one bomb. and it will return home WHEN it is out of gas and bombs, unlike EE that returns home when the damn thing is 3/4 full and missed the enemy cause he moved 1/2 tile aways from the spot you dropped the bomb. If you dont want your units to hang around CONTROL your units.

5) No unit healing unless you play the French or build a massive wonder or micromanage garrisoning!!)

Wonders arent THAT expansive really in RoN, no more the the costs of aging up. It is totally integratable in normal game play. Wonders in RoN arent so rare, they arent the "eng game" techs/units like other RTS. Plus healing by garrionsing is not that difficult, and probably more realistic.

[MahoTsukai]

Hi,

Thats my first post on these forums, hello all !!

Anyway, I consider myself a hardcore TBS AND RTS gamer, I am still playing TalonSoft Rising Sun, Operational Art Of War, and I'm also a very high level player of Warcraft 3, so I dont consider myself biased in favor of TBS or RTS genre, I love both genres and I have the essential titles. Yesterday I downloaded the RoN demo and I'm very excited to get my hands on the full version after I played a couple of games today.

You may compare RoN to EE, AoK or even TA, but reality is that you are comparing oranges to apples, both are fruits but the similarities stop there.

RoN has been made by the Brian Reynolds, the same guy who lead designed SMAC (one of my all time favourites). This game holds the legacy of Civ2 and SMAC, while borrowing from most recent RTS and I'm glad it shows; great diplomacy, plethora of options, fast action and deep thinking etc. If you are looking for awesome graphics then you will be disappointed (Altho I find the graphics just fine, but thats only my opinion mind you =), but if you are looking for a sweet marriage between fast action and *real* strategy then welcome aboard.

But don't come trashing the game while you obviously don't know what you are talking about, as I said above; I'm myself a newbie to this game, but I don't need to know more to udnerstand that you never played it, or maybe you are on drugs ? This game will be a success, no matter what the nay sayers will argue, and BGH folks know very well that no game can please everyone (heck I saw people bashing SMAC:AC & WC3 ! ). Facts are that there are a LOT of MahoTsukai's lurking out there, people that waited a long, loong time for such a game, and I'm pretty sure the demo will conquer a lot of hearts...and wallets (or credit cards ) and I for one will gladly fork the bucks, in particular when I consider the pile of crap sitting on my shelf collecting dust ( AoM, NWN, Emperor & consort).

Last but not the least, if you are to argue, at least mix in some logic and good sense, that complaining about the rock-paper-scissor (counter system) which is the basis of balance in mp games makes you look crazy.

Thanks.

[The Rusty Gamer]

I suppose...perhaps...

I suppose it would be good to have a button on the units that you push so that they will automatically find the nearest appropriate bulding and garrison in it instead of us having to hunt around for the building.

Personally, I found the demo a bit same-old same-old but with a slight change in formula from EE, AOE etc.

I noticed that the costs of units, techs etc change when you go to a new age. I like this. You have to make a choice whether to upgrade now or go to a new age and pay different costs for the upgrade. However, I would have liked to have seen an added twist to this. If you chose to upgrade to the next age earlier, then you actually miss out on some research, buildings units etc altogether! Then you have a real choice. Do I want to get to the next age or hold back to get advantage with more resaerch etc...

I will reserve judgement till the full game. The demo is too limited in that we can't change alot of the starting conditions for battles, victory conditions etc. I would like to see how the game is with the cost of techs at the highest level for instance. Also, how the campaign game goes. Also, what kind of editing options we have to create scenarios etc. Can we fiddle with the whole tech tree, redefine ages etc?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Bridger

9) The core of the game is multiplayer, don't confuse yourself thinking single is selling the game. No RTS since AoK has sold on it's singleplayer.

Do you not consider EU type games to be RTS? (I would understand that, just trying to clarify) I think the TBS/RTS distinction is arbitrary, since there are games that are technically RT (including SMG/SMA - also Brian Reynolds designs, at least to a considerable degree) that dont play like typical RTS.

In this sense would you say that RON, despite its civish aspects (cities, borders, etc) is still closer to classical RTS than an EU or a SMG? And would you say that RON is not likely to be interesting to someone interested in playing SP only?

[One_Dead_Villy]

rusty...so far the game has proven to be very moddable the game hasnt come out yet and we already have a number of mods out there, or in the works

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by One_Dead_Villy
rusty...so far the game has proven to be very moddable the game hasnt come out yet and we already have a number of mods out there, or in the works

Can you change the tech tree, costs, and when to go to the next age etc? That's the big one that was sadly lacking in previous incarnations of this type of RTS.

Also, is there a random map script? I think I remember reading there wouldn't be unfortunately.

[Alex]

Don't forget that BHG promised a very deep editor to fully tweak the game, including scripting language.

[One_Dead_Villy]

there are random map scripts but i havent sat down to figure it out yet or what u can do with them

as far as changing the tech costs....i am almost certain that u can change this from the type of stuff u can change in the game by modding...ive already found a way to take away certain units from a civ's tech tree so i guess it maybe also possible to remove research techs.

[fluffy_ferret]

tell me, how much different can an rts become and still be called rts? rise of nations is the most revolutionary in the RTS genre since total annihilation.

[The diplomat]

I completely disagree. RoN is as close to a real-time civ as ever was. You have real cities, borders, diplomacy, a tech progression from ancient age to information age.

Case in point: I just played a quick battle (demo) on easy, with 3 AI nations, great lakes map, diplomacy game and standard victory objectives. I was Bantu, and the 3 AI's were British, German and Egyptian. Each nation started in a corner.

I developped up to about 3 cities. Then, I tried to forge an alliance with Germany but it wanted 200 metal, so I refused. Then, England offered me an alliance against Egypt. I accepted. I built a few more cities. I was at about the Enlightenement Age, when I decided to declare war against Germany. I "blietskrieged" through Germany, in a few minutes, suddenly propelling me to number 1 with 68% territory. Germany was gone! I now was adjacent to Egypt, and could prepare to conquer them. I had about 4 Wonders, and 10 Wonder Points. My ally the British also had 10 Wonder points, and the Wonder Victory timer began. At about 40 seconds from victory, I reached the industrial Age, and I blasted my way into Egyptian territory with a huge army. A furious battle developped at the Egyptian town of Memphis, but at that point, the timer hit 0: VICTORY!

The whole game lasted 52 mn, involved peace negotiations, a lucrative alliance, a fast war against an unsuspective neighbor, construction of massive Wonders, territorial expansion, and technological development from a small stone age village to an industrial age empire.

It sure felt like I was playing a real-time civ game to me! And it was a blast!

[MahoTsukai]

I don't know what's up with TA, beside some innovative ideas (nothing more than Dark Reign) and crappy unit design. I played it a lot, trying to find what was so hot about it, until I gave up and went back to my beloved SC, AoE and WC2.

Games that are imbalanced are not fun in mp, period.