disaster at amazon.com

[Q Classic]

in any case, i'm just glad i didn't pay any extra money for a "limited edition" in which i would have gotten utterly ripped off, based on infogrames' past behavior.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Ray I do not think that the reviews will make any difference on the IF or WHEN for Moo4. It is the sales that will make that determination. If it is low rated and sells well, then someone will take another shot.

I agree with that. If it is low-rated on apolyton or some game website, then only the hardcore gamers (a very small minority) will be affected. In the grand scheme of things, that means very little.

I know 6-7 gamers at work, and I am the *only* one who checks out game sites. However, the majority of casual gamers will be influenced by the amazon reviews, and that will be bad for MOO's sales.

This has nothing to do with what I think of the game, but what the average gamer will think and what that means to the brand. QS took a widely-known brand (MOO) and turned it into a niche title for hardcore gamers.

It is far easier to do sequels than to start from scratch. Just look at the movies or TV. The backers like to have a known, even if it less than stellar. That is wht we got Police Academy VI and will get Rock VI or whatever it is now.

I agree. Sequels do have the advantage of name recognition. However, if MOO3 ends up a niche game for hardcore gamers, then its name is not a big selling point any more.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Booya2020
Don't forget a lot of people love this game. Im willing to bet the ratio of people who love it to people who hate it is 50/50.

Earth to Booya. Earth to Booya.

Come in, Booya.

amazon.com shows it to be 89/11 against.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by notyoueither
In those stores, placement and availability will be far more important than a completely predictable hosing the game is receiving from casual on-line shoppers.

Damn good point...but I have observed that MOO3 has been mixed in with the vast sea of all the other games.

Everywhere I have been, Moo3 has been mixed into the "general population" not in the new release rack...which struck me as odd.


Anyone else noticed this? or is it just an anomaly where I have been?

[Sternum]

Originally posted by Ray K
Earth to Booya. Earth to Booya.

Come in, Booya.

amazon.com shows it to be 89/11 against.

The average consumer is more likely to blast a product they're displeased with than praise a product they enjoy. It's human nature. Trusting an optional review system on one web-site to present an accurate sample of the entire MoO III-owning population's opinion of the game is absurd.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by notyoueither
In the long run, what will make or break the MoO franchise is whether QS can stick around to improve the game. If they can the game will steadily gain a larger following and the prospects for a 4 will be good. If they can't stick around and finish it, then it will die a CTP2 death.

On the subject of a future, it seems that expansions are the latest rage for publishers. Thus an expansion for 3 would be a desirable thing from IG's point of view. For that to happen, the game will have to be fixed first. Thus, there is a dollars and cents reason for why the game will most likely be improved by QS.

I fully agree. I think right now Quicksilver needs to be concentrating on cleaning up the MoO3 shambles and making the game more playable so there is a future for a MoO3 expansion, not to mention a future for Quicksilver.

Originally posted by vee4473
...but I have observed that MOO3 has been mixed in with the vast sea of all the other games.

Everywhere I have been, Moo3 has been mixed into the "general population" not in the new release rack...which struck me as odd.

Anyone else noticed this? or is it just an anomaly where I have been?

This IS a potential byproduct of poor reviews. If customers and reveiwers are spending effort bashing a product then retailers are going to give preferred market space to the products for which there is positive buzz.

No positive buzz, not much chance of getting moved up to the hot release rack.

[Killazer]

Fact of the matter is the mainstream players (which is most people) dont have any fun playing moo3. If you like moo3, fine.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Sternum
The average consumer is more likely to blast a product they're displeased with than praise a product they enjoy. It's human nature. Trusting an optional review system on one web-site to present an accurate sample of the entire MoO III-owning population's opinion of the game is absurd.

That's an interesting theory because there seemed to be no shortage of 5-star ratings submitted *before* the game was released.

But you're probably right. When almost 2/3rds of the reviewers give the game the absolute worst rating, and 90% give it the worst or second-worst rating, that's clearly an indication that at least 50% of the public likes it.

Now can you tell me what kind of ratings you would expect a *bad* game to get? I ask because it seems that there's very little room for the ratings to get worse.

[Arnelos]

Hate to bring this up....

But since survey research is part of my field, I happen to know a thing or two about it.

The concern Sternum brought up IS a valid reason to suspect the validity of review on Amazon.com. Because whether or not someone posts a review is chosen by self-selection, only people who feel they have an incentive to post such a review will post one. It's entirely possible that people with strong negative reactions are far more likely to bother than people with mild, fairly good, or even great reactions to the game. It's not unusual at all to see such phenomenae... in fact, that's the main reason "online polls" are almost entirely useless regardless of how they are conducted... SELF-selection always means you're mostly throwing accuracy out the window along with inviting bias into your sample as opposed to working against it.

That said, I agree with Ray K on the following point:

Whether or not it's a VALID survey is irrelevant. If some casual gamer is looking at the reviews on Amazon.com site or another site and notices a preponderance of negative reviews, it's going to at least give him pause if he was intending on perhaps buying the product. Some will explore further to see if the reviews were just an indication of people not liking it posting there, others will simply give up on the product.

Whether or not the survey reflects reality isn't as important as the fact that the PERCEPTION it gives can have an impact on someone's beliefs... Ray K is correct there.

The question then is how many people actually read those things and take them seriously.... I'd agree that a lot of people read them, but not very many people take them very seriously. I've seen enough awesome books or awesome cd's or awesome games trashed by complete morons in amazon.com reviews or such that I've learned to completely ignore them.

I have no idea how much others might do the same or may not even look at places like that. Who knows... as NYE said above, we'll know for sure when sales figures start being seen down the road. Then the true survival in the long run will be decided by how actively QS works on patches to fix this mess.

[vmxa1]

Reviews and surveys are similar in that the respondants are more likey to be the negative one and then next group are the very happy ones. I spent a lot of time dealing with surveys.
You need some incentive to do a review and if you are mad, you have one, if you are very pleased you have one as well. Most of the rest can not be bothered.

[Killazer]

Whatever. When a game is great it shows. Xenosaga for instance is a great game and 99% + of the scores it recieves are 4-5 starts or 9-10 pts on 10 pt scales. Its a great game and it shows, Moo3 isnt and it shows lol. Bottom line. Sorry if it breaks your heart or whatever lol

[Ianpolaris]

Killazer,

While I agree with you (as you no doubt know), vmxa1 is making a very valid point. Reviews tend to be 'bipolar' in nature....often much more than the product/question would otherwise indicate. That is the primary reason in fact why on-line polls are 'unscientific' no matter how well screened. The poller doesn't control the sample space (unlike political or 'scientific' polls where this is done).

Having said that, I tend to agree that poor reviews can be a good indicator of a game that might have serious issues....but that isn't the sole criteria that should be used. IMHO return rate is a better one....although for computer games that is skewed by the lousy return policies of most retailers.

-Polaris

[starfox]

I think you get too much into technical details. I believe that an average gamer buy a game, let's say every 3 month. He has a list of games he would like to buy, probably 3 games. Depending on the reviews, those 3 titles go up the list or down the list.

If I had money for a new game, reading the bad reviews on MOO, it will definitely go down my list. Or maybe I would buy it in 6 months when it will be much cheaper.

For instance yesterday, I purchased Age of Wonders II (new, not used) for 15 euros (about 15 dollars) and it comes with a bonus mission CD. Great bargain.

And one last point, some people suggest to return the game if they dont like it, but noway you can do it in France (and I would tend to think in Europe). Piracy would be too high. So returning the game is not an option for many of us. And I'm not sure there is a demo of MOO3 so you either love the franchise and try it or believe the review and spend your money somewhere else.

[CharlesBHoff]

The place where I buy my game alway display new games in
the new games display as the owner believe one person might hate than games another person might love the games. Very few games in the computer games indrusity are real mass market like stove and icebow(refigour) . All than game need to do is sell over 250,000 copies world wide.

To most people playing computer games make you weird and that the honest truth. May-be only 20 % of the america population play and buy computer games.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Arnelos
The question then is how many people actually read those things and take them seriously.... I'd agree that a lot of people read them, but not very many people take them very seriously.

Arnelos, first of all, thanks for understanding the point I was making!

However, I do disagree with you on this point. I liken player reviews to eBay feedback. When the vast majority of ratings are bad, it's hard to imagine how most buyers won't take them seriously.