Thanks to EU III . . .

[MrFun]

I have been trying to get by on five hours of sleep on most nights, my dark circles have gotten worse, and I have even been eating dinner at a later time than usual. I've also been neglecting going to fitness center for my usual exercises.

As much as I obviously love playing EU III I think I need to get some control over myself back before I become a zombie from sleep deprivation.

[Nikolai]

Get HoI2: DD, Victoria: Revolutions or Rome:VV to alternate your choice of obsession.

[MrFun]

No thanks. I need to be able to eat and sleep in order to live.

[MrFun]

Although, I am soooo enjoying dominating my immediate neighbors right now as the Ottomans. I created my own trade center at Thrace after making it my new capitol earlier in the game and I'm only a little behind the Western nations in Land and Naval technology. I've also partly-cowed the Timerud Empire with a couple of surprise, swift victories, securing a couple of eastern provinces from them.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm enjoying playing as the Pope going for world conquest. He owns China and it's 1852.

100 percent taxes, 0 percent education FTW.

[Unimatrix11]

Now, that would be Vicky...

[FrostyBoy]

I'm enjoying playing as the Pope going for world conquest. He owns China and it's 1852.

100 percent taxes, 0 percent education FTW.

*shudders*

[Unimatrix11]

Yeah, doing a WC in Vicky is an utter PITA IMHO. And only attainable with gamey tactics (like 100% taxes, 0% education) and far more effort than fun (the revolts!) as for me to even try it. I prefer playing it in some realisitc way (rich taxes never below poor taxes for example). And i dont manually split pops either. One gamey tactic i do use though: Satelites as save borders. In Vicky, a nation cannot declare war, when it already is in a war. Say, i play Germany and have conquered Poland from the Russians (better examples involve the Ottoman empire in the balkans). That makes for quite a long border and chances are, the russians will come back at me sooner or later. So i release Poland as a satelite (and make it give back all those provinces i didnt intend them to have by playing as Poland for a day - i keep it realistic tho - they dont get Danzig, but they do get Krakow, which is already generous). Now i have just two provinces left, directly bordering Russia. Those i can fortify. When Russia declares on me and i get prompted if i want my allies (such as poland) to join the war, i choose ´no´. Thus Russia can not attack via Poland (and it cannot declare on them seperately, once they declared on me - see rule above), but i can, since i can freely move my troops through Poland and beyond. In addition, the provinces i capture from Russia with attacks from Poland become german-occupied instead of polish-occupied, which would be the case if Poland was in the war. And Poland acts as a save zone in case my troops recoil and have to retreat - the russians cant follow me there, no matter what. I think they should drop the no-DOW-if-in-already-a-war rule. What´s its point anyways? But it´s too tempting for me not too exploit it (the excuse i give myself for it is, that you cant really negotiate with an AI).

[Main_Brain]

And i dont manually split pops either.

I think we all prefer to automate this task when the Empire reaches a certain size.

http://www.europa-universalis.com/fo...d.php?t=331570

[Unimatrix11]

No, MainBrain, i dont split´em at all. The game is easy and tedious enough without it.

Right now, i am playing a 2-player game with a buddy (agressive and hard AIs). He plays Prussia, i play the Ottoman Empire. Now, he does all the gamey stuff. He splits his pops and micros his economy, which takes forever. Every two years or so, we have to save and reload, since the game-engine seems to have issues with splitting pops in multiplayer games (just like you have to pause in order to repay debts, or else it wont be computed correctly). And that with Prussia! Needless to say, that by 1870 he fields about 250 divisions and beat the french and russian AI left and right. He also annexed a french region (the one containing Laon), that is as german as Borneo and directly borders Paris, so he can just waltz in there every 5 years to make them pay for the next 3. And then he brags about it, till my ears bleed. If i was a bit less courtious, i would quit the game for being bored and annoyed out of my mind, despite the fact, that i am actually doing okay with my ottomans. Not über, but okay. Cause i dont use gamey tactics with the easist power to play, but play realistically (and swiftly) with a power that offers some challenge. I actually told him about splitting pops when i introduced the game to my buddy, and told him, that i´d rather not split pops, since the game was easy enough as is (at least with a great power) and the micro would be too time consuming. And that was, before we realized the need to reload each time upon pop-spliting. Still, he threw all that well meant advice over board and claims, that if he wasnt allowed to play the game to its maximum efficiency, doing what he can do, he wouldnt need to play the game at all. But if i, out of a typical hour of gameplay, just sit there for 50min, waiting for him to perfectionize is already gigantic industrious output or fielding and moving around his 250 divisions fighting rediculous, absolutely predictable wars with uniformly über-positive results for him, i wonder, if i really want to waste my time with that. It doesnt impress me at all - i read an AAR of someone doing a WC with Tibet by the 1860´s - it´s just boring and reckless to play like that on Multiplayer (at least with 2 players only).

[Main_Brain]

Beside the Multiplayer synch issues, which make it hard to split the Pops/repay debt/assigning pops etc. *cringe* the Splitter actually boosts the Big industrial AI more than the Players as a Human will ted to split more often. UK & Prussia/Germany Industrial rating do profit greatly from the new labour force.( Non industrialized China not so much)


The Secret to joyfull Mp games is that with a certain Empire size you cant be as efficent as with a small country without grinding the gameplay to a tedious crawl. Incentivize short pausing, for example with the Golden Rule: Who stays paused the longest pays the pizza or smth. like that

[Unimatrix11]

So you are saying, that if you play as Prussia, you should content yourself with a sub-optimal economy, or else the game will grind to a crawl for all and thus gets boring? Well, if so, that´s exactly, what i tried to say... And i cant eat as much Pizza as he´d owe me by now (despite the fact that he denies that he takes ages longer than i do)...

I do get your point about the splitter. I havent taken a look at it yet, but i figure, it splits all pops of a savegame automatically. Well, maybe it would be a good idea, to have it run through a game at start. But that wont help my buddy, no. He´d still check after each finished/expanded factory, if there isnt some pop somewhere, he could split. And if he´d find just one, he will split it, and then go: ´Okay, save and reload, please...´. But at least, with the splitter, the AIs get the same advantage as he gets from wasting my time. That could help with the bragging at least.

I just wonder what´s wrong with a house-rule saying: ´No (manual) pop-spliting (at all, ever).´ That would keep numbers in check, too. I mean 250 divisions by 1870? Sounds like nonsense to me. And just makes the game more tedious. Better have a 100 vs. 100 war, than a 250 vs. 250 war, and of course even more so with a 250 vs. 100 war (as is the situation when only one splits his pops). Seriously, i often feel tempted to resume the game after his 30 sec. have expired. Just for showing him, how many pauses of that duration he´d need to do one of his standard operations. And as if that wasnt enough, in the middle of it, he feels like rolling a cig... yeah great, take your time, man... mine is waste anyways... And if my turkey is capturing one of its small neighbors, which i mostly do on the fly, without any pausing, and i do dare to pause, he´s like ´with what kind of puny war are you wasting my time again ?´. Those times, when i am busy for a change that is, are in general the ones which he uses to dispatch a maximum amount of bragging to distract me from actually doing something in the game as well. And often enough, i am delayed in my wars due to his action, despite the fact, that he´s having peace for change. Can you imagine: 25th of sept. 1866... on the 26th my army arrives and fights. It actually happened that i had a beer and a cig between the two dates...

I´d say, the key for a enjoyable 2-player game of Vicky (where you do not neccessarily want to war each other) is to a) pick smaller countries, which offer a challenge and do not degenerate into a massive blobs if controlled by a human player, so that both players can cooperate without making either of them omnipotent, and b) have none of the human players be a friggin perfectionist who plays with his hormons going through the roof (aka Mr. Braggy-Braggy Look-i-am-the-greatest Big-Pants). If you are playing with more than 2, b) doesnt matter so much, as the two others will eventually put an end to this anyways - if only to make the game enjoyable again...

[Ben Kenobi]

i read an AAR of someone doing a WC with Tibet by the 1860´s

I'm not that good, and I don't know if that's even possible with 1.04.

For the Papal States, the order goes like this.

1. Drop all spending, other then full military.
2. Buy enough shirts for 3 big groups of soldiers. (300 manpower)
3. Buy enough guns and wine (60) to field 6 divisions of regular calvary.

4. Declare war on Parma/Modena. Annex both (add 3 territories)
5. Declare war on Lucca. Lucca brings in Tuscany AND Sardinia.

This war you have to be careful with. Put all your calvary north and Satellite Sardinia. That will leave them with Torino. Annex Tuscany.

Here, I expand the military again to 20 calvary divisions.

6. Declare war on Three Sicilies. Sardinia, France and Spain jump in. Satellite 3 Sicilies, while allowing the French to begin their attack. Send all divisions north, once Sicily has been satellited, and Torino Annexed, then you declare Italy. I got Italy in 1842. Once Italy is declared invade and take Paris. Sit and hold, until they give you war indemnities. White peace with Spain.

War indemnities pay off all my debt and let me build 20 clippers.

Once all the debts are paid off, I raise my spending on crime fighting, and send the troops on the boats to Japan and Korea. Invade both and annex.

From there I keep taking stuff until the peace treaty expires with France. Invade France, and get war indemnities. I invade the US when they are in the Mexican war and get the same. When I have all that cash, I build 100 native calvary division, homed to Korea, and then I can invade and conquer China.

Right now I'm up to 550 territories, I am 3rd in power (behind Prussia and Britain), and I just destroyed the German alliance of Austria, Bavaria, Prussia and all the minors.

[Unimatrix11]

See, thats a very good example of what i have no interest in doing in Vicky (or anyhow else for that matter). But if it floats your boat, thats your choice to make, of course. Just allow me one or two comments:

1) Being able to invade france upto Paris in the 1840´s with an italian state is historically so out of line, that, if i did that, i´d either feel like cheating or that the game is crap. I decide, i make the game good for me, by not going too far, even if i can.

2) Taking Paris and making France pay is hugely overpowered and makes it the milking cash-cow, that can pay for pretty much everything for any human (solo-)player nation neighboring it. If you add others to that, paying you as well, it gets rediculous.

3) Is it anywhere near realistic, that Italy could have somehow conquered Japan and Korea, and from there went on with 100 (!) divisions of korean troops to conquer china as well (and succeed)? I´d take Korea, allright. Maybe at some point late in the game satelite Japan and expanded Korea to Mandschuria or whatnot. I simply wouldnt wanna do the other stuff - not my cup of tea.

I am not claiming, that my ´style´ was the better one - just the one i prefer to play and like my playmates to play as well. But in MP, if you got that far, you´d get in trouble anyways i guess...

[Unimatrix11]

EDIT: BTW, It´s two-sicilies (´Beider Sizilien´ in german), not 3.