Is PC gaming doomed? Apolyton 2008 edition

[Felch]

Originally posted by Traianvs
Halo was the FPS incarnation of Fusion Frenzy. Shallow and repetitive gameplay, cliché story and no innovation save for the outstretched outdoor locations

Every true FPS-partisan knows this.

Isn't shallow and repetitive gameplay, and a cliché story the whole point of FPS? Halo is the ultimate FPS!

[Asher]

Originally posted by El_Cid


Then sacked them. A profitable studio. But they didn't fit in with MS games divisions future plans or something according to the head of Ensemble. I posted something about it somewhere....I think in this forum?

Anyway it doesn't matter. PC gaming is still doomed.....

"This isn't the platform your looking for.....move along, move along"

Yes, Ensemble Studio makes PC games. MS disbanded the company because well, PC gaming is doomed.

Then again, what does MS know about PC game development. It's not like they're the epicentre of the whole thing.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
The last bit you declined to quote is key. You seem to be bashing LotM around the point around turning losses into profits, whereas it seems to me it doesn't really matter for the overall point whether it was turning losses into profits, or small profits into bigger ones, the chase after casual gamers is now the goal.

You are entirely correct sir. I am not under the impression that cash flow becomes a minor concern for an enterprise as soon as its making a marginal profit over direct costs, especially in an R&D oriented business where considerable profit over direct cost is needed to cover indirect costs.

[Asher]

Your spin rivals that of politicians.

Man up and read what your original post was.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, Ensemble Studio makes PC games. MS disbanded the company because well, PC gaming is doomed.

Then again, what does MS know about PC game development. It's not like they're the epicentre of the whole thing.

MS want you to buy their 'X480', and the online subscription thing that is central to it's longterm goals.

Nintendo wants other people other than you to buy thier 'Poo', which will also have a vital pay extra online system.

etc etc

And what will you get for your money? well more of the same, short, sharp, sometimes shallow, high turnover gaming - happy days(?)

Not my cup of tea personally. thats all.

[Asher]

Frankly, there's been more innovative and interesting games on the console than on the PC in recent years. Even Spore is a pretty big bust. It was far more shallow than even Gears of War or Halo, which as I recall most PC users rail on...

[El_Cid]

true, even PC gaming has been 'infected' by consoleification - especially the last few years as you say. Hopefuly things will get better or I will be forced to code my own!!!

[Asher]

There's nothing console-like about Spore at all.

[Boris Godunov]

Really, I can't think of anything a PC game can do better than a console except complex strategy games like Civ (Revolutions was fun, but hardly as compelling as its more robust PC cousins), EUIII, RTS games, etc. And I guess MMOs are best on PCs, because the vast amount of keyboard shortcuts needed can't be handled via a console controller. But the shrinking size of the PC games section in stores is an obvious and ominous sign.

In a few years, PC games probably won't even be sold in stores, it will all be download-based.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
Your spin rivals that of politicians.

Man up and read what your original post was.

"I saw that article, and it seemed to me extremely unlikely that SONY and MS wouldn't make another console. Clearly both, in different ways, think of their losses as investments and expect to much better financially the next gen. And of course theres still the "battle for the living room" - even if dominating the game console market isnt the best strat to winning that battle (i dont know, myself) clearly MS and SONY dodnt accept that.

I do think the losses matter, even to MS, and may effect their future strategies. MS has already responded by apparently accelerating their move to casuals."

Yes.

[Asher]

You said "losses matter, even to MS", and they "responded by accelerating their move to casuals".

The problem was by the time they accelerated that move, they were not losing money.

If you had said goal for further profit, maybe (still arguable since the Arcade is potentially the only money-loser), but that is not what you said.

[Krill]

As soon as they move TBS such as civ to a console, and actually make a good game, and allow for the use of a keyboard and mouse instead of a game pad, then I expect the PC to die a quick death as a gaming machine. Until then, it'll probably just be on life support.

[DrSpike]

I'm not sure about this argument. A keyboard is already available, albeit mainly for comms.

And TBS has quite a small market. Even on the PC it's basically down to Civ/Col & GalCiv (and even that doesn't sell very well). So not sure the incentives are there for consoles to move in, unlike say MMOs, where I'm sure we'll see a big console MMO within a few years.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher
You said "losses matter, even to MS", and they "responded by accelerating their move to casuals".

The problem was by the time they accelerated that move, they were not losing money.

If you had said goal for further profit, maybe (still arguable since the Arcade is potentially the only money-loser), but that is not what you said.

I think it was clear from my above posts, that when I said "losses matter" I was not implying that they were still taking a loss on each machine sold, but was referring to the overall overall position over time of the 360. Note, the earlier quote which I was DISAGREEING with, the one that quote that said that MS would not make another console. It did not say they wouldn't SELL another console, cause of losses. Rather that they wouldn't develop another one. Clearly the decision to develop or not is based on life cycle profitibility, NOT on the the question of whether one has reached the point where additional sales earn incremental profits.

Now I disagreed because I do think A. the 360 could become net profitible if they sell enough machines at a net profit (and gain revenues from SW) to pay for both the sunk development costs and earlier losses B. Cause they may see the Xbox 720 (or whatever) as likely to do better, due to both a growing market, their certainty they wont repeat the 360s manufacturing issues, etc C. Cause this isnt really about making money from games, its about winning the war for the living room. Ergo, I am sure there will be another MS console. BUT, I think its possible they will modify their strategy somewhat in response to the overall financial performance of the 360 so far. One possible response might be to attempt to lengthen this generation, so as to gain more of those incremental profits they ARE (as you say) making on each box, before launching a new box. However there are enough other strategic factors involved, most of which I admit I dont have the knowledge to judge, that I couldnt begin to guess whether or not they will do that. Another possible response would be to try to expand the market to casuals, so as to make more sales, (each of which is profitible,of course). I think we are in agreement that what they have learned about that market by watching Nintendo has encourage them to think there is money on the table there for Xbox. Whether they saw that in the context of a 360 that was doing as well as or better than MS expected, or at a time when they had concerns about its financial performance, is difficult to say, without knowledge of exactly what they expected (and no, quotes from them afterwards saying everything is fine wouldnt be evidence on that). I suspect that while they didnt expect the manufacturing problems and associated costs, SW sales may well exceed their expectations. So net-net, Im not sure exactly what their state of mind was.

Now I think most of the above was pretty clearly what I was speculating about.

NOW, can we get to PC gaming?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I'm not sure about this argument. A keyboard is already available, albeit mainly for comms.

And TBS has quite a small market. Even on the PC it's basically down to Civ/Col & GalCiv (and even that doesn't sell very well). So not sure the incentives are there for consoles to move in, unlike say MMOs, where I'm sure we'll see a big console MMO within a few years.

PC Gaming is almost dead

Its imperative that you buy/build a PC with a decent video card. Don't be cheap.

"In psychology, cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling or stress caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously."