Is PC gaming doomed? Apolyton 2008 edition

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Asher is a good wall for bouncing **** off.

I'm going to take this as a compliment, but I'm sure it wasn't intended as such.

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It's clearly not the last wave - all three major manufacturers have, if not official, largely believed timeframes for replacing their consoles; Wii and X360 successor around 2010, PS4 around 2012 (plus a year for Sony being Sony ).

I wouldn't be surprised if that wave is the last, though, if significant advances in computing continue to be made; and if TVs give way to HTPCs (who knows on that one). I'm not saying I even expect this; but I wouldn't be surprised, either.

TVs replaced by HTPCs? No.

The trend is quite clearly to have the "HTPC" be the console. The 360 and PS3 are both media machines that work well as HTPCs.

This is why Sony and MS are both very interested in it. In the late '90s both MS and Sony identified the living room as the location for the next computer in the home. It's the gateway for media.

Both Sony and MS have or will have video and music stores hosted on the console. They're slowly ramping up the types of activities you can do on the consoles in addition to games. The next generation will take it even further. Consoles are essentially gaming-specialized HTPCs already. All of this talk about "controlling the living room" is coming to fruition now, it's not just talk.

[El_Cid]

Well I finaly got around to getting my PS2, and I've been pleseantly surprised by the quality and variety of very good games that were in my first batch of purchases.

Okami - is breathtaking in its beauty, not just in the graphical sense but also in the sincerity of the game message. It's perfect for younger players in that sense(or your kids). Awesome game.

Guitar Hero 2+3(+guitar controller) - Heaps of fun, hard as nails, moshingly cool. No wonder Sid is reportedly spending alot of time on these gems. Interestingly I could not tell any difference between the look of the PS2 version compared to the PS3+360 version I saw being run in the games store.

Popstar(a few of them)+mic - not my choice, but they are great fun especialy with another player.

Next on my list is Katamari and God of war, and that should suppliment my PC gaming nicely

----------------

PC gaming dead(again?)? - no. More like slowing down as console gaming has increased in popularity.

I don't think the argument is purely one about volume of sales. Sure the current gen(and last gen in terms of PS2 game sales) is selling more in the retail stores, but that has to be expected when the big publishers(and big three console manufacturers) decide that this is the way they want to go.

An open platform(to develope on) like the PC with all thats associated with it(easier to pirate etc) will always play second fiddle to the closed and controlled platform IF the companies involved decide they want it that way.

Personaly my experience of console gaming is as it has always been - a great short term distraction, with very fast turn over rates(in terms of games completed either due to ease of play or shortness of the games design). I certainly haven't regretted all of my console game purchases. BUT i always end up back at the PC if i want that deeper, longer more thought provoking gaming experience. Either fireing up an old P166 to play some DOS classics, or running an incredibly complex massivily modded game on my higher end system.

A platform that is open to develope on will always have some advantage. Just purely because no one company is saying what can or cannot be produced on it.

So I suggest consoles(and those who develope for them) enjoy the good times. Just be carefull - remember ET and what started the last big gaming crash.

If we get lazy and too greedy people can and have stopped buying new games for new machines.
With the current gen I rarely see much to get that excited about(mostly it's all eye candy), which is why i still dont own one of the latest consoles, but thats just me.

PC gaming is here to stay. Will it ever be a platform that the big companies will milk for all they can again? I would say not, not while they have consoles to do so on.
But PC gaming will always have that element of surprise - you never know just what amazing fast ball of a game might be just around the corner, and who knows maybe it will be your own game? That will certainly not be likely to ever happen on a console, not to the same extent.

[Asher]

but that has to be expected when the big publishers(and big three console manufacturers) decide that this is the way they want to go.

Problem is they still release the games on the PC, and no one buys them. No wonder "they" decided this is the way to go, it is what the market decided.

Have there been any coaches who won the Stanley Cup in their first year with a team?

The Wii is trying very hard to replicate the ET-inspired crash of old. Immense quantities of shovelware, eventually people are going to get pissed off and shun gaming.

It's actually a risk that's being discussed on many sites, is the Wii ultimately hurting gaming? The quality of software for it is astonishingly low it is reminiscent of the early 80s, which lead up to a massive crash.

Fortunately, with the 360 and PS3 out here, the whole market isn't riding on the one-trick-pony console (be it Atari 2600 or Wii). Hopefully the impending Wii-inspired backlash is isolated to Nintendo.

[snoopy369]

There was an interesting article on the shovelware issue in GameInformer this month. They largely blame three factors:
1. Developers are still learning how to develop 'good' games for the Wii - as it's very different, it will be a process. It is starting to happen now, to some extent.
2. The Wii is too easy to develop for (hence shovelware).
3. Nintendo does not have an approval process - anyone can develop for them.

Fairly obvious stuff of course, but it brings up an interesting point: Why does Nintendo not have an approval process?

Their conclusion is that good games will start to beat out bad games, and the 2600 crash won't occur as a result; but it sounded like a 'hopefully' was missing...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher

TVs replaced by HTPCs? No.

The trend is quite clearly to have the "HTPC" be the console. The 360 and PS3 are both media machines that work well as HTPCs.

This is why Sony and MS are both very interested in it. In the late '90s both MS and Sony identified the living room as the location for the next computer in the home. It's the gateway for media.

Both Sony and MS have or will have video and music stores hosted on the console. They're slowly ramping up the types of activities you can do on the consoles in addition to games. The next generation will take it even further. Consoles are essentially gaming-specialized HTPCs already. All of this talk about "controlling the living room" is coming to fruition now, it's not just talk.

Well, I think i'm saying the same thing as you from a different direction here... though the difference would be the degree of functionality I suppose.

I certainly envision the HTPC being a less 'controllable' device, or at least have the ability to be more console-esque in terms of one or a small number of button pushes translating into functionality, rather than a Windows navigation. I suspect they'll still have the ability to have the other, but that depends on a lot in the industry I suppose.

[Asher]

The Wii is not necessarily "easy" to develop for, it is just cheap to develop for.

The development tools are quite lacking compared to the 360's.

[snoopy369]

That's not what the article said... i'll see if I can find it online.

edit: Nope, can't, but it's pp18-19 I think of the magazine if you happen across it in a store somewhere.

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
That's not what the article said... i'll see if I can find it online.

edit: Nope, can't, but it's pp18-19 I think of the magazine if you happen across it in a store somewhere.

I don't care what the article says, game magazines are awful journalism.

Talk to the developers on Beyond3D.

There's not even an accurate performance profiler on the Wii. You need to compile and debug in a Linux environment. The documentation is notably lacking for third parties.

Nintendo has never had very good third party development tools. And this is intentional, that way their first/second party stuff always comes out better and it makes them more money.

It's absolutely consensus in the industry that it is easiest to make Xbox 360 games. The tools are there and the documentation is massive, and Microsoft regularly sends their own experts to help developers if they run into technical issues (on site).

Why do you think Xbox got so much developer attention compared to the Gamecube, and a lot more than its marketshare warranted vs the PS2?

One of the reasons the quality of the games are so low on the Wii and so high on the 360, in general, is because the tools on the 360 are that much easier to use and helpful to the developer.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Asher

Problem is they still release the games on the PC, and no one buys them. No wonder "they" decided this is the way to go, it is what the market decided.

.......

True, but how about this angle; maybe no-one buys them because:

a. just maybe the ports to PC(from console) are often very shoddy(e.g. like the recent spiderman games), especially when these games are designed for console first(UI especially being a problem).

b. just maybe PC gamers are not so likely to buy any old game having become cautious over the long years of gaming mediocrity and compared to the(often) younger less experienced console games consumer(+ often ill informed parent), are less quick to splash the cash?

It's very difficult to tell what all the factors may be, especially in an incredibly saturated market, one that sadly as an average never seems to really hit the mark consistently enough I would argue.

It's not the fault of the devs as such as they are as much constrained by those same market forces that provide the odd hits that make all the money, and further narrows the potential of the medium. This is not always the case of course, but most devs I talk with are aware of the issue.

An all xbox/console gaming world would sadly not actually be a gaming nivarna, but merely a vessel for a short term revenue stream.
lol I'm already bored with next-gen (current gen if you like) without even getting on the platform - it's just not my thing in terms of what i want out of gaming. But a reasonable short term distraction i suppose? Like i said i don't regret all my console purchases, just most of them

Not that the PC is flying high and proud in comparison, BUT i do still play Civ4(+expansions) 5months after getting it. I don't think I can say that about any of my console games?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Problem is they still release the games on the PC, and no one buys them. No wonder "they" decided this is the way to go, it is what the market decided.


The Wii is trying very hard to replicate the ET-inspired crash of old. Immense quantities of shovelware, eventually people are going to get pissed off and shun gaming.

It's actually a risk that's being discussed on many sites, is the Wii ultimately hurting gaming? The quality of software for it is astonishingly low it is reminiscent of the early 80s, which lead up to a massive crash.

Fortunately, with the 360 and PS3 out here, the whole market isn't riding on the one-trick-pony console (be it Atari 2600 or Wii). Hopefully the impending Wii-inspired backlash is isolated to Nintendo.

i hope folks are enjoying"



49 Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian, The
45 Mr. Driller Online
44 Iron Man
44 Discs of Tron
43 Turning Point: Fall of Liberty
43 Bliss Island
37 Rocky and Bullwinkle
29 Jumper: Griffin's Story


Metacritic - 360.

[Asher]

LOTM, every system has **** titles.

The point was, rather obviously, there are more **** games on Wii than other consoles. Look also at the average scores.

[DrSpike]

I'm getting a strange feeling of deja vu.

[Wiglaf]

Civ rev is a good example of how consoles just cannot figure out how to make intelligent strategy games

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I'm getting a strange feeling of deja vu.

Yes, indeed.