Nwn 2

[LDiCesare]

I just got that game with the expansion, thinking I'd rather get this than the Witcher, and am having second thoughts.

Camera controls are, well, somewhere below anything I saw.
I found it possible to rest everywhere. If you couldn't rest, just move a bit, or systematically rest after every fight. This means playing a healer is what, useless? Or that healing should be done during fights only, and there is no consequence to managing a fight badly because everyone will be healed immediately afterwards anyway. Hate it. On the other hand, I suppose playing a spellcaster would be about impossible otherwise as you'd run out of spells far too often.
Loot looks like you'll need 55 inventory screens to carry everything, as there's so much and it doesn't look great.
The first vendor you meet can sell magic weapons. I know this is D&D but everyone and their brother should not have a magic sword. Or if they are so common, the thugs you meet should have some, and you shoud be able to retrieve the weapons and armor they used, but no. So loot basically looks like lots and heaps of useless stuff that you sell to get that +4324 nifty axe of slaying green leprechauns (tm) which a poor craftsman happens to be selling in a lost village in the marshes?

There are nice points, like there seems to be some use for diplomacy skills, but I'm not sure it'll get very far (D&D being always fight oriented, I don't expect to be able to get out of a situation by talking/bluffing very often).
And I still can't figure when I have to click on an enemy in order for my character to attack. Do I need to click on it every round or does it keep attacking automatically till I say otherwise?
I just replayed the buggy as hell Temple of Elemental Evil before installing NWN2 and thing ToEE is better in terms of control, visibility, ergonomy. But it has zero story worth talking about, so I hope NWN2 has somethign there.

Still, considering I didn't buy the Witcher because the combat system looked like it could be a pain, I'm a bit sad. With uncomfortable camera controls made worse by the fact you must manage a whole party, I'm not sure combats in NWN2 will be easier to handle. Oh, I miss turn based rpgs!

[DaShi]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I found it possible to rest everywhere. If you couldn't rest, just move a bit, or systematically rest after every fight. This means playing a healer is what, useless? Or that healing should be done during fights only, and there is no consequence to managing a fight badly because everyone will be healed immediately afterwards anyway. Hate it. On the other hand, I suppose playing a spellcaster would be about impossible otherwise as you'd run out of spells far too often.

This has also been the case with Baulder's Gate and NWN1. Healing is designed to be done during the fight. Buffing is done before. The idea is to prepare-fight-rest. This is just the nature of these types of games.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Stuie


The expansion was pretty good - but you're right about the whole gods thing.

I actually played through twice - once for the "good" ending and once for the "evil". Man, the evil ending certainly wasn't "they lived happily ever after".

yeah I still have to do the evil ending. I made a character, but want to take a short break so all the quests aren't fresh in my head. I have a sorcerer/eldritch knight/arcane scholar/paladin created and ready to go.

[Dis]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I just got that game with the expansion, thinking I'd rather get this than the Witcher, and am having second thoughts.

Camera controls are, well, somewhere below anything I saw.
I found it possible to rest everywhere. If you couldn't rest, just move a bit, or systematically rest after every fight. This means playing a healer is what, useless? Or that healing should be done during fights only, and there is no consequence to managing a fight badly because everyone will be healed immediately afterwards anyway. Hate it. On the other hand, I suppose playing a spellcaster would be about impossible otherwise as you'd run out of spells far too often.
Loot looks like you'll need 55 inventory screens to carry everything, as there's so much and it doesn't look great.
The first vendor you meet can sell magic weapons. I know this is D&D but everyone and their brother should not have a magic sword. Or if they are so common, the thugs you meet should have some, and you shoud be able to retrieve the weapons and armor they used, but no. So loot basically looks like lots and heaps of useless stuff that you sell to get that +4324 nifty axe of slaying green leprechauns (tm) which a poor craftsman happens to be selling in a lost village in the marshes?

There are nice points, like there seems to be some use for diplomacy skills, but I'm not sure it'll get very far (D&D being always fight oriented, I don't expect to be able to get out of a situation by talking/bluffing very often).
And I still can't figure when I have to click on an enemy in order for my character to attack. Do I need to click on it every round or does it keep attacking automatically till I say otherwise?
I just replayed the buggy as hell Temple of Elemental Evil before installing NWN2 and thing ToEE is better in terms of control, visibility, ergonomy. But it has zero story worth talking about, so I hope NWN2 has somethign there.

Still, considering I didn't buy the Witcher because the combat system looked like it could be a pain, I'm a bit sad. With uncomfortable camera controls made worse by the fact you must manage a whole party, I'm not sure combats in NWN2 will be easier to handle. Oh, I miss turn based rpgs!

Healing has never been that useful in D&D. Not like a mmorpg. One guy had some analysis that compared damage dealing and healing, games such as world of warcraft allow you to do like twice as much healing as you can damage, but that is not the case with NWN games. You simply can't heal for that much. So even healing in combat isn't that useful (better to take a potion). So in the end, clerics are most useful for buffs and eliminating debuffs.

You'll find in the expansion after chapter 1, it's not advisable to rest too often. Though there are ways around losing spirit energy (spoilers: like reducing craving to 0 with multiple suppresses).

I still haven't played witcher yet, I'll probably wait until they fix the bugs. This could take a while since it's not a north american designer.

The strong points of D&D are the large array of spells. Sure many of them aren't that useful. But it gives you many options as as spell caster.

As for melee types, you don't need to tell them to attack each round. That would be extremely tedious!! I don't even think there is an option to auto pause each round. Melee types are a little boring for me. There just aren't enough options. Sure you can try knockdown or disarm. But I don't like doing that as it's harder to score a hit with those attacks. Same with power attack. So for regular attacks you don't have to tell your party to do it each round. But if you do have AI off, you should tell them to do it at the start of the fight.

I prefer to leave AI on. Sure they do stupid things, but it's faster and less tedious. And how realistic is it anyways to control your companions? They should have a mind of their own. It will also enhance replayability. If you play all the classes, there will be little incentive to play again as you already know most of the divine spells, arcane spells, and melee moves.

[Dis]

As for the camera controls they are annoying. The bugginess is annoying too. I did have a few CTD's (though they cleared up). But I still have CTD if I have the map up and I accidently (though you are supposed to be able to move the window) move the window with my mouse.

I tried playing KOTOR recently, however. And those camera controls are so restrictive, I felt I couldn't complain about NWN2 as much. . I prefer to not have auto follow options and play in strategic mode and just reposition the camera as needed (to see items, the way ahead etc.)

[Harovan]

I like the deity stuff and have even done some research on it. It's interesting to read about their fights in past and present, who was slain (gods can slay other gods) and who took their place, and which god stands for which traits, weapons and cleric portfolios. I like to create well-rounded characters, and a deity, the proper alignment and (sometimes) the right weapon are part of it, even though most modules don't really support deities at all.

I have to concede the point that they are too many, though. If I were to design a DnD realm, I would create less gods. Perhaps the magical seven would be a good number, that is enough.

As far as the healing/resting discussing goes in DnD... I try to rest as little as possible. Often I aim to clear a zone with only one set of spells. That's not possible in early stages (you just don't have enough slots), but from level 6-7 on it is possible, if you're ready to fight yard trash with low level spells and help with your dagger or club.

As for healing, the only healing spells worth a damn are Heal and Greater Restoration. I don't bother with light and medium wounds even as a cleric, that's what packs and potions are for. But Heal is nice, because the damage you get during the attacks of opportunity while casting or drinking the potion don't nullify the result of the healing, as it is with lower spells or potions. By the way, the smart cleric always has both Heal potions and spells - potions if you tank yourself (can't be interrupted and AO don't matter), spells if a henchie tanks.

[Dis]

I did like reading all the books and stuff. It's something I do in games now. I even did that with my BG1 run through. First time playing BG1 I didn't read any books. But read most in BG1 this time. And I read all the books in NWN2.

The gods are kind of interesting. My main problem is it's hard to get a handle on the high fantasy stuff. I'm like that with books/novels (actually I don't even read fantasy books) as well. Once the settings start getting a little too fantastic, I get a bit disconnected from the story. Which is one of my complaints of Planescape:Torment as well. All the weird planes and stuff I don't care for.

That said, I like the high fantasy god stories of MOTB better than Throne of Bhaal XP for BG2. BG2 XP is just a blur to me now. I don't hardly remember the story. I think it was something like 5 bhaal spawn are supposed to kill your or something or other. MOTB is interesting trying to figure out why you have the spirit eating curse.

But as I said, I generally prefer lower level stuff which is generally less orientated with planes and gods and such.

[Alexander I]

IMHO, Mask of the Betrayer is worlds away better than vanilla NWN2, at least in terms of both plot and characters.

Some would argue that the altered camera is a bit of a pain, myself included.

[LDiCesare]

After playing a little more, I think this is a good game, but the camera is annoying, the story is so linear, and the game is somewhere between very buggy and desperately buggy.
Stuff like this from the official forums show what I mean:

Since the 1.07Beta and the 1.10 patches, as well as the release of MotB, a couple of problems may seem to be more common. However, these are not new problems caused primarily by the recent patches nor the expansion, they have only been made more visible.
(...). Unfortunately these summoned critters are a problem when attempting to pass through transitions (...)

Some of the symptoms that may occur are Companions, such as Khelgar or Neeshka, may suddenly be replaced by Qara's familiar on the other side of the transition. In some cases, the game may hang or crash during or after a transition, or a conversation may not trigger on the other side of a transition.

I've already met 3 bugs that could be circumvented (but I lost items and quest opportunities) but would be showstoppers otherwise. Plus the occasional crash during save which wipes out your save file in the process. This is not counting the loading times which increase as you play (cleaning caches anyone?)...
This makes me unsure whether I'll run through the game more than once.

[Alexander I]

As a whole, it's a flawed game. There are parts that I enjoyed very much, like telling off Torio with my huge diplomacy skill at the trial, or crusading against the City of Judgment with Kaelyn the Dove and an army of fallen angels, a demilich and a huge blue dragon.

This doesn't make up for the many glaring design flaws, but the game's still worth playing a few times IMHO.

[Stuie]

If you want some additional play out of the game, I would highly recommend "Harp & Chrysanthemum" by maerduin. It is one of the best mods I have played for a NWN game. You can find it over at the vault - I'd post a direct link but I can't get there from here (work).

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=nwn2modulesenglish.list

[LDiCesare]

There are parts that I enjoyed very much, like telling off Torio with my huge diplomacy skill at the trial

Yes, that part is a lot of fun, except that whatever you do it always end up in a fight anyway so it feels like you did all of that for nothing.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Stuie
If you want some additional play out of the game, I would highly recommend "Harp & Chrysanthemum" by maerduin. It is one of the best mods I have played for a NWN game. You can find it over at the vault - I'd post a direct link but I can't get there from here (work).

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view...esenglish.list

Yes, the player-made material was the saving grace of NWN1 as well.

[Dis]

Yeah the trial was cool, but unnecessary, the game is too linear.

And MOTB is a better story, but as I said, sometimes I prefer lower level characters and plot lines. I think the sweet spot for dnd is level 7-17. That is the funnest part of the game.

The bugs are annoying, I knew about the summoned creature bug, I never got hit by it, but unsommoned anyways just in case. You can turn off use abilities in the character screen so the npc's don't summon creatures. That badger is annoying anyways because it gets in the way. Bishop's wolf is more useful, but not necessary to have out.

The save games do get longer. Act 1 and 2 aren't bad for me. But the save games for act 3 are very long. But it's good as it causes me to do less reloads.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by DaShi

Yes, the player-made material was the saving grace of NWN1 as well.

Definitely - I played mods more than the "official" campaigns for NWN1. In fact, I never even bothered finishing the OC.

Just pointing out Harp and Chrysanthemum because it is a) new and b) pretty much the best player made mod for NWN2 thus far.