World of Warcraft

[Blake]

VC is the name of the boss at the end. A VC run means doing the entire instance and killing VC.

You'll often get this naming convention (the target boss rather than the dungeon name), because many instances can be done partially, or have side quests and stuff... it's kind of irrelevant to Deadmines since it's a linear dungeon, but it's just the convention.


Btw did you even get into the swirly portal thing which actually loads the instance proper?

[Dis]

yeah it takes some getting used to. my first time was kind of nerve racking with my hunter.

I didn't really feel comfortable pulling, and didn't have that much experience at it yet. Didn't know (or have) much about traps. My first was shadowfang keep. I was with a bunch of other noobs that didn't know what they were doing either. They formed a raid group because we couldn't get past the couryard lol. But of course this means we couldn't complete quests such as the book in the library.

if you are a druid you can roll need on leather (or jewelry). Though to be nice, if it's leather more suited to rogues, I'll roll greed. If you aren't sure just click greed.

I was hitting need on all the fang armour tonite. Unfortunately so were all the hunters. Hunters think they can roll need on every leather piece. They don't need fang armour, that's for a druid. *******s. Despite their need rolls, I ran thru Wailing Caverns the easiest I have ever done. Very good group that knew something about pulling. Helped many of them were high levels though. . Around 22. I was healer this time, as all we had other than 3 hunters was a shaman. And shaman just don't have that mana pool. I just couldn't trust him to heal me. So I was healer. My mana pool got a bit tight in spots too though . I did a pretty good job keeping 3 hunters and their pets healed, along with the shaman. I think I'm a much better healer than tank. But I do think I can tank if I have a better party. parties are hit and miss. Some are good, some are bad. And I know shaman don't have that great mana, as I used my shaman to heal in SM (scarlet monastery). Even with some cheesy int leather (I'm was level 40 at the time) I ran out on any fights involving 3 people. I died 4 times as the party didn't think they had to help the healer getting pounded on. They don't realize when a healer heals, he pulls aggro from mobs that have full hitpoints (they haven't been aggro'd by the warrior or others yet)

I don't know much about deadmines. It's mostly an alliance instance. I have never heard of horde instances going by the main baddies initials. rfc for ragefire chasm. sfk for shadowfang keep. wc for wailing caverns. rfk for razorfen kraul. rfd for razorfen down. ud for uldaman. st for sunken temple. I don't know any of the outlands intials yet, I have yet to run a dungeon in outlands. As a hunter, I don't get a lot of party invites

I was trying to run someone thru gnomeragon with my warlock. but my internet connection went out. It was a little tough as a level 42 warlock, but I think I could have done it. We had a level 28 pally and 31 rogue as well.

Before you enter an instance dungeon as a druid you need to figure out what your role will be based on the class makeup of the rest of the party. I've only done 2 instances with my druid now. One as tank, and one as healer. It's unlikely they will have you do dps in cat form, but if you already have a healer and tank, I don't see why not. Just remember to put buffs on everyone in the party. Everyone should get mark of the wild, and the tank and off tank should get thorns.

It's hard to get used to dungeons as they are small, and if they are moving fast it's hard to keep up with the action. Use the tab key to find the next enemy. As a druid don't attack mobs with full hp's (this is for tanks). Just attack what everyone else is attacking. As for dying, unless the healer dies, he should resurrect you. . As a druid at level 20, remember to buy maples seeds so you can res. You can only do it once every 30 minutes however. So it's good to have another char who can res, or have a good party that doesn't die too much. . Once you run a few times, you learn the twists and turns of the dungeon. Deadmines is pretty small, I ran unsuccessfully with my priest when I had one. The other party members had no problem letting mobs pound on me. . No one realizes when there are multiple mobs, and you heal someone getting hit, the mobs that haven't been hit (aggro'd) yet will come after the healer.

I try not to be condescending, but I do have to urge people to pull and who and how to pull. It's not rocket science, yet I continue to get amazed how people don't know how to pull. True, I learned this playing a hunter, but all classes benefit from pulling. Especially when you have monsters that flee when low on health. This saves many deaths. It also prevents lower level party members from pulling unwanted aggro from nearby mobs. I even pull with my pally sometimes. It's harder as they can't use ranged weapons . I only have mana tap (blood elf racial ability). Though my judgement will go 10 yards. I was even tempted to pull with my rogue tonight, as I'm tired of people not pulling correctly. But we made it thru without too much problem. Though they did do a bad pull (a warrior charged in I think), I was disconnected from the server at the time. I returned in time to see a shadow bolt hit and kill me.

[Dis]

anyways I may have to put this game aside, until i can figure out what's going on with my internet connection. Just started last night and again tonight. But only at night so far. That's what I don't get. Last night all my cable went out, including my tv while I was trying to run someone thru gnomeragon.

Tonight I was trying to run ragefire chasm with my troll rogue (yes I created another rogue ) I kept losing connection every 2 or 3 minutes. But was able to log on in a couple of minutes unlike last night when the light went out on my cable modem and never came back. The lag sometimes went to yellow or red, but sometimes I would get disconnected when it still showed green. I'm not sure what's causing it. I hate to call the cable company because they always assume the problem is on your end.

[Blake]

Yup pulling is important. It's possible to make a bad party work (if you aren't the healer) by demanding that they let you pull mobs, and just instruct the warrior to do intimidating shout to get the attention of all the mobs. Most warriors will appreciate another class pulling, so they can charge. Druids should have no problem doing the pulling themselves (Druids, on AVERAGE, are fairly competent, they do learn 3 class roles after all).

If you are a healer it's your JOB to be an *******, and a condescending ******* at that. Especially if you're not a druid (so can res) you can just let people die if they do dumb things, if you are a druid you have to let the shaman/paladin have some love too, but that still leaves two jerks who can die.

I remember a few times I serenely stood by and watched my party die for not following my instructions (like say they engage 3 mobs when a patrol of 2 more is obviously coming, **** that). Then after they're all dead, rezed them (unfortunately as a Druid my ability to do that often was limited, but I think at least once I went cat form and prowled off, then came back and rezzed the shaman).

Follow my instructions or DIE, that is the healer power. If it makes the party fall apart then all the better the party wouldn't have made it to the end anyway.

Of course you should also utterly love any player who decides to be your guardian angel and not let any mobs touch you, my mission in life as a non-healer was nearly always a guardian angel for the healer, didn't matter what class I was playing, if something attacked the healer, I attacked it! This attitude was mainly from spending so much time as a druid healing, I was NOT about to let a healer suffer on my watch!

[Sparrowhawk]

Originally posted by Blake
Btw did you even get into the swirly portal thing which actually loads the instance proper?

I'm guessing by the fact that I am not sure to what you are referring that we didn't get to that point, but we did go a fair distance before it all fell apart, so I am not sure where this portal would be?

Originally posted by Dis
As a druid at level 20, remember to buy maples seeds so you can res. You can only do it once every 30 minutes however. So it's good to have another char who can res, or have a good party that doesn't die too much. .

That would be a useful thing to have/be able to do. I am guessing I get maple seeds from a reagent vendor? Up to this point I hadn't figured out what I was supposed to buy from them, though now that you mention it, I recall having read somewhere about someone else have resurection by this point .

Btw, I am now level 21, almost level 22.

/me

[Dis]

most likely he was not in the instance as he was searching for a place to return to life.

When you get inside the actual instance (a portal- and then a loading screen), when you die, when you return to retrieve your corpse, you only have to get to the entrance to the instance dungeon. So you don't have to worry about a safe place to resurrect. Unless you spend over 1 hour in a dungeon. That's about when respawns happen in an instance.

It's kind of cheesy, but looking at a map at a website helps. I usually have a browser window open anyways. Although I did that with gnomeragon, and I was no less confused. . That place is confusing. But I suppose after you run it a few times you learn it. I know wailing caverns and rfc like the back of my hand. At least gnomeragon was wide open. Deadmines is very tight and constricted, making it more confusing.

yes reagent vendor has those. So if you are in a party that completly wipes, you resurrect someone who has resurrect ability (shaman, priest, or pally). And if you wipe more than once in 30 minutes, all of you are walking back to the instance.

anyways it's nice to get the quests for the instance before running it. Start at sentinal hill, westfall.

[Dis]

And you know you have been playing too much world of warcraft when your sex dreams take place in the wow universe. I was dreaming I was having sex in some dungeon when some adds came. Not the the good kind of adds you might think, but mobs. so I had to pull out and grab a bow and start shooting. I was disappointed.

[Dis]

A few more tips about a dungeon. It's good to work out what everyone's role is before entering. I've done instances where people just charge in without discussing anything with each other first. A little socialization goes a long way.

The few basic things to be worked out is healer and tank. Healer heals and resurrects when possible (you already know about druids restrictions). Druids make good healers despite the fact they can only resurrect once every 30 minutes. The heal over time spells don't draw alot of aggro right off the bat. I have never pulled aggro from a monster that had some damage taken off it from another party member (granted I don't have that much druid dungeon experience- just one dungeon). I did pull aggro on mobs that hadn't been touched yet. Thankfully the hunters in the group put their pets on it. Amazingly, a good party with 3 hunters. I was in a party with 3 hunters with my pally once- very annoying. Priests obviously make good healers. And paladins as well. Shamans don't have as much mana, and their healing spells seem kind of slow to me 1.5 and 2.5 sec casts. Lately, I have a completely different healing action bar for dungeon healing. For my druid I had 1 as regeneration, 2 as renew, 3 as the long heal spell, 4 cure poison, 5 cure curse (actually I just got this spell at 24), 6 as hibernate (for crowd control- I had entangling roots here, but forgot it doesn't work indoors- hibernate only works on animals), I can't remember what the rest were. Just click the portrait of the person you want to heal, and then 1,2 or 3. I like this way as I use both my left and right hand which is easier. Using the F2, F3 keys is awkward to use for my left hand. As a druid as soon as someone starts taking damage I hit a regenration, though I might wait a little bit if there are nearby mobs that haven't been hit yet, as I don't want them on me. But if it's someone hitting hard, hit that regen first, then renew.

Next up is tank. Warrior, pally, or druid. I still think warriors make the best tanks because of the shield. But pallies and druids in bear form can do it as well. It's also nice to have an off tank. For additional mobs that haven't been crowd controlled, or someone who goes after the healer.

Another important one people don't discuss is crowd controller. Having 3 mobs pound on the tank is hard. I think I had 5 pound on the warrior once when running my pally. Flash of heal was not fast enough to keep him alive. I was spamming the 1 key, but still couldn't keep him alive. You have to crowd control. Hunters have ice traps. Mages can use polymorph (commonly called sheep) they can use on humanoids, undead, and beasts. Warlocks can use succubus on humanoids. Rogues can sap. A few other classes have minor crowd control abilities as well. In a dungeon, it's good to mark (party leader can use icons to mark monsters- or players) which one to attack, which one to sheep etc. As I mentioned before, it's good for everyone to be attacking the same target, except the tank, who should get some aggro on all the targets actively engaged in the particular battle.

And the third role in a group you may see on the chat channels is dps. Damage per second. Their basic role is to kill things. Most classes can be a dps, if not all. Fury warriors, retribution pallies (though you don't see pallies asked to do dps usually- if ever) can do it. But usually mages, warlocks, rogues, hunters etc. Shaman can do it too. They can do amazing damage. But they can also pull aggro easy. A dps should all be concentrating on one targe (also the tanks main target) as to not draw aggro from other mobs. Most mobs will tear a mage up in a few hits. It's wise for him not to get too many crits with fireballs (although if you have a good tank using sunders- they can probably handle it). I have been using scorch myself for smaller evener numbers.

I did party leader the other day, and they asked me to mark everything. But I'm not comfortable in that role. Even though I know what I'm doing, I don't like bossing other people around. Plus we're moving fast, so it was hard for me to have time to mark everything.

So even though I'm not the most skilled with the fast moving around pvp type abilities, I think I can hold my own in dungeons. I make up for any lack of skill through intelligence. I know how to pull, I know how to watch for patrols etc. Too many people are in a rush to do a dungeon in 30 minutes or less.

As for pulling, you probably won't be asked to do this. But even in single player, you should know how to do this. When you are out in the world and you see chests, usually they are guarded by 3 or more mobs. Being greedy as I am, I was determined to get them. So you have to learn ways of pulling without fighting all 3 at a time. Although in some cases you have no choice but to fight all 3. In that case you pretty much need to be a higher level. You'll learn to tell when they are "linked". You can usually tell by the distance they are from each other and some of the movement they do. Practice by clearing camps such as the gnoll camps in westfall. You are a much higher level for them at this point, but it's good practice.

[Sparrowhawk]

Yes, most of my Wesfall quests are grey, but I intend to do them anyway, for the rep gain and for the practice. Actually I haven't found the Gnolls yet, or my list of quests would be a couple shorter.

I get your point about people not being able to pull, I have teamed with two hunters and am amazed at how they both just rushed in an attacked, not minding the adds and the fact that they died because they rushed in. I tend to try and seperate my opponents and as long as I can do so, usually have success against them.

Not sure I will make use of the Dungeon advice any time soon, my first experience has somewhat scared me off Instances for now (though my available Dungeon Quests just went from Orange to Yellow with my most recent level increase, if I get it to green maybe I will try that one ).

I would also appreciate some advice on Auctions. For the longest time all I did was sell everything to vendors, but I have been told I will make much more by selling it in auctions. Thinking that, I kept everything that was green and put it up for auction, using the auction houses defaults as my starting price. Of the 6 items I put up for bid, only one sold....is this typical? I choose the medium length auction (8 Hours IIRC), not sure if this was wise or not.

Having now gained level 22 there are 4 new spells I can purchase, but without selling these green items I can't afford them all (actually I can only afford 1 of the 4). So should I sell to the vendors as before or do something different to try and sell at auction?

(and once I get an answer to the Auction question I will ask about Banks, I don't use them yet either).

/me

[Blake]

Next up is tank. Warrior, pally, or druid. I still think warriors make the best tanks because of the shield. But pallies and druids in bear form can do it as well. It's also nice to have an off tank. For additional mobs that haven't been crowd controlled, or someone who goes after the healer.

The tanking goes like this:
Warriors make the best boss tanks.
Druids are the highest damage tanks, they add more dps to the party than Warriors, they have the most hitpoints.
Paladins are the best tanks for multiple mobs, they are also the toughest by certain metrics, particularly fast-attacking mobs.

Druids have the weakness in the end game of being less able to mitigate Crushing Blows and Critical Strikes, HOWEVER, that does not matter until the end game! You need the end game gear in order to be able to mitigate crushing blows, so until then all the tanks suffer them, and Druids with their higher damage and higher hitpoints are in many ways better.

[Blake]

I would also appreciate some advice on Auctions. For the longest time all I did was sell everything to vendors, but I have been told I will make much more by selling it in auctions. Thinking that, I kept everything that was green and put it up for auction, using the auction houses defaults as my starting price. Of the 6 items I put up for bid, only one sold....is this typical? I choose the medium length auction (8 Hours IIRC), not sure if this was wise or not.

Auction Advice:
Until you've played the game you don't really know what equipment items are desirable...

As for tradeskill commodities like leather, cloth, gems etc, basically what you do is check the average price on the auction. If you'll get better than vendor trash value (and often you'll get MUCH better due to twinkers!) then put up your stuff slightly undercutting the current prices - note that people aren't going to want to bid on such stuff, they just want to buy it outright and have it immediately. So set the buyout price to slightly undercut the current buyout.

It's trickier when selling something which the AH doesn't have any of, or many of. It might be extremely worthless so no-one tries to sell it, or it might be extremely valuable so everyone buys it if the price is even remotely reasonable... You can sometimes use something like Thottbot to get some clue of how useful an item is and whether the prices you see are really absurdly high, or just slightly too high...

There are also certain patterns of prices, I can't remember exactly how it goes, but I seem to recall that prices tend to be higher during the weekend, when often commodities will sell out...

In the case of like when Linen has sold out, you can often get away with putting it up for an absurdly high price, then along comes some twink with heaps of gold and is like "That's a total ripoff but I want to level up firstaid" so he just goes ahead and buys it despite being ripped off. You can thus make a real killing on simple tradegoods like Linen.

Linen Cloth
Item Level 5
Auction: 97 Silver 6 Copper (19 Gold 41 Silver for 20)
Vendor value: 13 Copper
Vendor cost: 55 Copper

I looked it up on Thottbot just for fun.

Almost 20g for a stack! LOL! That's probably from the extreme abundance of gold in the end game meaning twinks are very rich. It's probably an absurdly high outlier price, but feel free to set buyouts which seem unreasonably high.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Blake


The tanking goes like this:
Warriors make the best boss tanks.
Druids are the highest damage tanks, they add more dps to the party than Warriors, they have the most hitpoints.
Paladins are the best tanks for multiple mobs, they are also the toughest by certain metrics, particularly fast-attacking mobs.

Druids have the weakness in the end game of being less able to mitigate Crushing Blows and Critical Strikes, HOWEVER, that does not matter until the end game! You need the end game gear in order to be able to mitigate crushing blows, so until then all the tanks suffer them, and Druids with their higher damage and higher hitpoints are in many ways better.

we can move crits off the table

also, we have enough armor and hp advantage to make up for crushing blows

it is the specialist skills that we lose in (and magic mitigation)

also, warriors get uber with good weapons

jm

[Blake]

But prot warriors never deal uber damage while tanking .

[Hot Mustard]

I don't have the encyclopedic knowledge of the other classes, but I can tell you that I've yet to see anyone out-tank my Pally (53 now). Higher level Druids and Warriors have given way to me in instances, where it just quickly becomes obvious who is tougher. The more the merrier is my motto - I can hold and take down multiple enemies far faster than I can each individually.

Oh, and PvP has gotten easier since I've started carrying certain potions to mitigate certain class advantages - anti-immobilizing and detect invisible in particular. The other week I was out of pots when I battled a 49 rogue (I was 50 at the time) and the fight went on for almost 4 minutes straight - neither of us able to gain ground. He finally gave up and we both "bowed". It was quite funny.

[Jon Miller]

Paladins are strong against Rogues.

They are also great tanks against multiple enemies, but according to people at high level, Druids have more physical mitigation + HP.

Being a great tank is a lot less important at lower levels, even nonspec warriors can do a good job.

JM