The Oblivion Thread

[Harovan]

BustaMike most certainly makes a good point.

[Asher]

I don't think he gets the point of the game.

Oblivion is the kind of game that's what you make of it. If you want to beat the arena at L1, that's your problem...not the game's.

Personally I am going through all of the quest chains. As of tonight I'm L17 and guildmaster of the Thieves Guild

Next I plan to work up the Dark Brotherhood.

I like these to be challenging. I like how the difficulty adjusts to my current level, otherwise it becomes a cakewalk to do one quest chain after you complete one.

This is a single-player open-ended RPG. You don't need rigid levels of difficulty like you would in, say, Everquest where at L1 you can't even kill a bunny without dying.

If you're looking for a game where it gets easier as you go along or a game where your selection of what you can do at L1 is next to nothing, go play another game. Because you've clearly missed the point of this one.

I haven't yet to see a problem with the "believability" of the game. I'd say if you make your character defeat the champion at L1 you're ruining the believability yourself -- you're the one roleplaying the damn character, use your head...if you don't think it's believable to do that at L1...don't do it? Hello...

[snoopy369]

Asher, you're ignoring his point.

BM objects to the fact that you COULD beat the champion at level 1. Not that you do. He prefers a game where you have easier monsters and harder monsters, and similarly with dungeons, etc. Making any given quest equally difficult at level 5 as level 10 is silly, and honestly takes away any incentive to gain levels (as normally one would notice a hard quest and say, hmm, maybe i should level up a bit ...)

It really increases the micromanagement aspect of the game, and takes away from Roleplaying. You're forced to play a "better" build, ie more focussed on actual ability to win, and less of a "fun" build, say the personality-based all-mercantile/speechcraft/etc. bulid, or whatnot, which has absolutely no ability to beat similar level mobs, and therefore has no chance in THIS game, but in Morrowind you could have played for 15-20 levels and then started beating things simply due to level. Heck, my GF levelled too fast (sneak and blade in her major skills) and as a fighter/thief has NO chance at beating the first gate, at level 8 ... she'll keep levelling and hope eventually she'll be able to, but as neither of us have any idea how the scaling works in detail, have no idea if she will (without dramatically changing her character, which she doesn't want to do, as she roleplays).

Indeed, I'm somewhere in between. I'd prefer to have plenty of things to fight at level 20 just as at level 1, but I feel there should be some fixed things. I look forward to getting better so I can beat X monster that I couldn't even hold a candle to several levels ago.

Perhaps use QUANTITY of monsters, instead of QUALITY of monsters, in many cases; make the guards scale up (say, level 10 to level 30 in the span of you going 1 to 40, so 1/2 level per your level) and other humans likewise, and make Daedra scale so they're always a bit ahead of you (say, 5 levels ahead of you, so 6 to your 1 -> 45 to your 40)w as Daedra are always going to be the challenge of this game; but leave the random mobs alone, and use them for your fixed level monsters that don't scale at all.

[Harovan]

By the way, do corpses of bandits, wolves, deer etc. and of slaughtered people in the city ever decay? It's a bit annoying to have them litter the streets for so long. Or will they stay forever? In the latter case, I may be tempted to use them as storage.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Fve Crathva
If I remember correctly, in Morrowind you couldn't raise your skills higher than the score for the governing stat. Is that the same in Oblivion?

SP

You couldn't train stats higher than the governing attribute, but I'm pretty sure you could level them through practice above their attributes. Not that that answers your question about Oblivion.

Maybe I can answer when the second graphics card I bought to play Oblivion on arrives.

[yin26]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
By the way, Yin, I share your fun with thieves....With Alchemy you can steal everything edible, no matter if bread, cheese, meat or vegetables, and make potions of it, which sell for 200 gold or more per house.

I'm glad to know I'm not an uber geek (well, maybe I am!) because I said the same thing to myself upon entering a house: "Oh look, bread!"

BustaMike:
Well, the die is cast on this game, and it seems like you should move on, adjust the difficulty slider, wait for a mod, or just find another way to approach the game. I like the way the game is structured, so do Asher, Imran and others.

[Solver]

BustaMike makes a very good point indeed. The first thing I have to say about that is, there are already mods out there that significantly tone down the whole level scaling system.

Again, isn't a problem for me, though. I am just not going to try and become the Arena champion at level 1. Also, I am finding quite enough of a challenge in each dungeon, maybe a consequence of me having a tough character to play. The only thing I do miss is the feeling of getting moew powerful (lvl 6 now and don't feel more powerful than I was at lvl 1), but maybe the difficulty slider can compensate. The slider's very sensitive, a click or two to the left would probably have the right effect.

I think that the point that there's no tougher dungeons with bigger rewards is just wrong. Dungeons are still of different difficulty, although it scales. For example, Ayleid ruins will have tougher critters than your usual cave. How tough exactly still depends on your level, though. And no, the enemies inside won't change immediately once you level up, they'd change after more than one leveling, so you can practice and prepare for it.

I'm not convinced that the system is perfect, but it's IMO much better. Although again, maybe the default difficulty is a bit too high. But at least the problem of Morrowind is completely gone, where you would go get that one legendary artifact and immediately start kicking everyone's butt. Or that once you reached level 10, it didn't matter if the dungeon was supposed to be difficult, they were all the same to you. And at level 20 you can wipe out a city with all of its guards.

[Solver]

Here's a good thread that explains how the levelling system actually works, and clears some common misconceptions up:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=293980

[Jon Miller]

One thing that hampers RP with the system is that you get a lot more out of leveling if you focus on a couple things, than if you just play normal and level a number of skills (you get a higher multiplier, and more stats)...

It is the thing I would like to change most, I think.

JM

[yin26]

Originally posted by Solver
Here's a good thread that explains how the levelling system actually works, and clears some common misconceptions up:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...owtopic=293980

Great link, Solver. I'm even happier with how they actually implemented it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by BustaMike
Wow, you guys totally missed the point, especially you Imran. Let me explain it in a different way.

The levelling system removes any sense of believability in the game world. At level one you can defeat the champion of the arena. This is the guy who's the strongest fighter in the whole city if not the country, but because the game revolves around you the level 1 noob straight out of prison the champion will be nicely scaled down for you to beat.

This isn't a powergamer issue. This is a roleplaying issue. One day you'll level up and everyone around you suddenly has brand new armor, all at the same time. Where did all the NPC get their shiny new ebony and glass armors when yesterday they were in iron and leather? It makes no sense and destroys the immersion.

It also destroys any sense of danger. In every other game including Morrowind there's always that badass dungeon that you just know is waiting to tear you a new one if you're stupid enough to venture inside. You know you'll need to practice your skills, upgrade your armor, etc to even have a chance and you know that if by some miracle you do manage to beat it the rewards will be awesome. Well not in this game. That dungeon doesn't exist. You can be sure that every dungeon you set foot in will have monsters that are just at your level, not too hard and not too easy. You also know that the spoils will be equally as bland: nothing spectacular but nothing bad either. Everything will be mediocre and just about right for your level.

Am I the only one who sees the problem here? How can you roleplay your guy when the world isn't believable? There's no incentive to get stronger, not that you can anyway relative to anyone or anything else. Where's the challenge? Where's the sense of accomplishment? I would choose godmode in Morrowind every single time over this.

As I said, I plan on finishing the game. I'm sure the story will be great and the side quests will be entertaining. From what I've seen so far, Oblivion has improved on every aspect of Morrowind except one and that one blemish is so huge that I doubt I'll ever play the game a 2nd time unless they completely revamp the system, which I'm sure they won't.

As Asher said, you just don't get the point of the game. The game is what you make of it. The fact that you can beat the Arena at lvl 1 or you don't feel any danger (where I definately did when doing a certain quest in the mountains near Bruma) because there is no uber dungeon doesn't particularly matter. The designers of the game wanted to give players full choice in where they wanted to go. In a game with easy ares and hard areas, you are, in effect, making the game more linear. That is what Bethesda is trying to avoid.

I also find it funny that you say "it isn't believable". What, shooting magic from your fingers is?

If you don't find any challenge or incentive to level, then you just don't get the point of this game, and perhaps should move on. I think it is very challenging and keeps me engaged, instead of making me like a God and boring me to tears.

Frankly, I love it. It provides me with a challenge every step of the way and allows for better roleplaying. You aren't a God, so why should you end up as one? I think its far less immersive that you, who were a peon a year before in game time, end up ruling everything and become God like. It's why I didn't finish Morrowind until a week before I got Oblivion. I put down the game for so long because it was sooo damned boring!

And btw, isn't there a video out there of some guy beating Morrowind at level 1. Not just an arena, but the WHOLE GAME!

[q=Snoopy369]BM objects to the fact that you COULD beat the champion at level 1. Not that you do. He prefers a game where you have easier monsters and harder monsters, and similarly with dungeons, etc. Making any given quest equally difficult at level 5 as level 10 is silly, and honestly takes away any incentive to gain levels (as normally one would notice a hard quest and say, hmm, maybe i should level up a bit ...) [/q]

No, no, you are ignoring Asher's point. BM missed the point of this game, and it just wasn't for him. If you want to be the champion of Arena at level 1, go ahead. It doesn't bother me that you could in fact do so. I like to roleplay, so I won't try until I'm at a higher level. Yes, BM prefers a game with harder and easier fixed level monsters, but that isn't the point of this game (to go anywhere at anytime). And there is always incentive to gain levels if you aren't simply playing to 'win'.

[yin26]

I would invite everybody to follow Solver's link.

[Quillan]

There are some really tough fights in the game if your level is too low. I'm not going to hide the text of this, but I am going to try to keep the spoilers out of it. I have the sword Umbra, and picked it up as a level 6 character. In this game as in Morrowind, Umbra is both a weapon and the name of the NPC who carries it. I found the NPC quite by accident. I've been working with this character trying desperately to raise my Armorer skill to 50 so I could repair magic gear (side note, I'd actually given up on using magic weapons/armor because they kept getting broken during adventures and I couldn't repair them), so I'd been spending vast sums of money on training the skill at every level. I was out doing dungeon crawling to raise money, and it turned out this particular one I decided to explore was where Umbra was staying.

The only reason I won the fight was what I consider sheer luck. I was attacked by two conjurers outside the dungeon. Both carried 2 Potions of Healing, and one had a staff that fired a 20 point frost spell. The only way I won the fight was by constantly running away from Umbra, shooting him with poisoned arrows and blasting frost bolts at him. I used up all 4 of my healing potions I got from those conjurers, the 2 other healing potions and about 10 of the weak healing potions I was already carrying, 3 vials of poison, about 1/2 the charges in the staff, and had all of my armor reduced to between 20-50% health in the process of the fight. If I hadn't had all the potions, poisons and the staff I would not have won that fight.

That's the exception rather than the rule, but those tough fights are out there. I had another recently where I picked up my first elven bow and longsword as well as a bunch of mithril armor, and I wonder if that scaled. I think the only reason I won that fight was that I already had Umbra (it has a massive damage rating).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by yin26
I would invite everybody to follow Solver's link.

Indeed it is brilliant .

Basically new creatures spawn as you climb the levels, but you have an equal chance of getting some of lower level creatures... and all of these are FIXED except for the highest creature in the list, who scale with the player... designed to always give you a challenge.

It's quite brilliant. Perhaps, they should have made an small area (such as the Northern Mountains or Western border) where you have creatures of all levels able to be spawn at any player level... that would have probably prevented any whining. Though it would result in players of lower levels not being able to go to that area until they got higher in level.

[Kassiopeia]

I dropped the difficulty rating just a bit and things are better now. Guards in dungeons take a good beating, but little critters in dungeons like rats are fried by a single fireball.

Edit: Having read Solver's link, this (and the system) makes sense.