Should I get World of Warcraft??

[Tassadar500]

Being a Paladin still interests me. I'll probably play two characters, so what is a good damage dealer?

[Asher]

Mage is the highest damage dealer, Rogues 2nd.

[Apocalypse]

What do you think of the idea of Orc Hunters?

[Asher]

Hunters are fun to play and easy to solo with, but they're fairly useless at L60 in instances.

[Asher]

I really don't like this realm transfer thing they did...

Not 2 days after Arthas players could transfer to our realm, Natherezim.

Arthas was "high" pop before, ours was "low".

Now Arthas is "low" and Nath is "medium", and we've been inundated with Arthas guilds and players that tend to be total jerks. :/

[BustaMike]

Originally posted by Asher
I really don't like this realm transfer thing they did...

Not 2 days after Arthas players could transfer to our realm, Natherezim.

Arthas was "high" pop before, ours was "low".

Now Arthas is "low" and Nath is "medium", and we've been inundated with Arthas guilds and players that tend to be total jerks. :/

I agree SO MUCH. The realm transfers suck. Bonechewer (my low pop realm) is getting maybe 5% cool people and the rest are rejects from Warsong. Even worse is the fact that 90% of them are alliance. I joined this server to play pvp on the horde side with a 1:1 ratio which is what it was. Now the ratio is 1.3:1 among all players and 1.5:1 among 50+ players... and it's getting worse.

If you're a jerk in game, people will start to know about it and you'll be excluded from commerce and grouping. This happened to the *******s on the high pop servers so they transfer. We don't want them either!

[Tassadar500]

Blizzard says the reason they didn't allow you to choose what realm you wanted to go to was so you could stick with your guild mates. What a bunch of bull ****. That doesn't even make sense.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Asher
That's not elitist at all. What's elitist about games like EQ2 and FFXI is it takes forever to level. It allows people with entirely too much time to dedicate to always be "better" than the casual player who plays for fun. In other words, it allows people with nothing else in life to finally be better than everyone else. That's why it's so addictive to many people.

WoW focuses on fun for the casual player -- it's not unattainable to reach the end game. In fact, everyone can enjoy it.

Fun and enjoyment is just like beauty always in the eye of the beholder. Some find nearly effortless advance enjoyable, some prefer a challenge. I am a chess player (some people here know this) and go with the challenge if I have a choice. A majority of players may prefer the easier way. Isn't it wonderful that there are different games for a different audience?

It's obviously pointless to argue over personal preferences, don't you agree?

One of the main differences between EQ2 and WoW is the endgame in WoW is not really the endgame -- there are PvP raids, there is the reputation system to work up in (my friend is spending a lot of time to get to Revered with the Argent Dawn to get some very rare recipes he can use to make some money), there will be the Battlefields system, the PvP Honour System and Rewards, not to mention the array of instances still to come, new zones, etc. I highly recommend you read about the Battlegrounds and PvP Honour systems especially.

You might try to inform yourself before you make such bold statement. Everquest 2 also has quite some endgame content, even though not many players hit the level cap yet. It also has epic mounts to earn (ghostly steeds, flying carpets, the latter IMO being a bit lame), the right to visit the Queen or the Overlord (depending on faction) and being rewarded with nobility titles, there already is a good high level raid content and more dungeons and zones are added on about a weekly basis. Oh and by the way, there are rare epic recipes with rare epic ingredients dropped from endgame mobs, too. Of course I am not quite there.

The PvP-system is lacking, however. I would prefer if it would be introduced at least in the end-game. Some others (I reckon the majority) don't give a rats rear on it. I don't have big emotions on this. If they add PvP, fine. If not and I'm eager for it, I roll a WoW character. Thankfully, this shouldn't take more than a few weeks.

By the way, level 50 is not the end in EQ2 either. According to the developers, the hard level cap is 200. This leaves quite a lot of room for further advancement.

While "endgame" aptly describes EQ2 at L50, it doesn't describe WoW at L60. WoW isn't your typical EQ2-clone MMORPG that focuses on leveling with insane XP requirements.

My typical advance is about 2 adventuring levels in a week, while actively tradeskilling and earning 1-2 levels there too. That makes 1 level (either way) in 2 days. I wouldn't want a quicker advance.

It's designed to let you play with multiple classes and let the casual player hit L60. Most players in WoW have multiple "alts" they play, especially as they hit L60 with their primary. It's entirely different to play as a Human Paladin than as a Tauren Shaman, and it's something that's easy to do in WoW.

Really. That's a huge advantage of WoW indeed... not.

I have a dwarven paladin (main), an high elven wizard, an halfling rogue and an erudite priest (I stick with the mainstream, some others play abominations like troll paladins, gnome warriors or ogre wizards) and I plan on rolling a ratonga ranger in the near future.

Of course, it will take some more time to do it than it would in WoW.

EQ2 has many fundamental design flaws, and most people see that from a casual look.

Ok, I bite. What are they?

There's a reason WoW has more than 1.5M subscribers already...and what's EQ2 at, 200,000?

350,000 in february, don't know about now. But the audience is quite different. Call it elitary all you want.

WoW is addictive because it's fun, EQ2 is addictive by design. There's a huge difference.

How can something be addictive by design without being fun? Enlighten me.


EDIT: Your epic endgame pictures look impressive, but can you explain me, why they keep reminding me of Captain America?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
You might try to inform yourself before you make such bold statement. Everquest 2 also has quite some endgame content, even though not many players hit the level cap yet. It also has epic mounts to earn (ghostly steeds, flying carpets, the latter IMO being a bit lame), the right to visit the Queen or the Overlord (depending on faction) and being rewarded with nobility titles, there already is a good high level raid content and more dungeons and zones are added on about a weekly basis. Oh and by the way, there are rare epic recipes with rare epic ingredients dropped from endgame mobs, too. Of course I am not quite there.

That's the same thing WoW has, but more with the battlegrounds and PvP honour system. In fact, those are the most interesting parts of the endgame. Farming for new items/recipes/reputation is only so fun, but having Battleground systems and the PvP honour system is something else.

By the way, level 50 is not the end in EQ2 either. According to the developers, the hard level cap is 200. This leaves quite a lot of room for further advancement.

60 isn't the end cap for WoW either. In fact, in much of the beta, the cap was 50. The cap increases as content becomes available, it, too, will increase like EQ2.

Really. That's a huge advantage of WoW indeed... not.

I have a dwarven paladin (main), an high elven wizard, an halfling rogue and an erudite priest (I stick with the mainstream, some others play abominations like troll paladins, gnome warriors or ogre wizards) and I plan on rolling a ratonga ranger in the near future.

Of course, it will take some more time to do it than it would in WoW.

A lot more time. What levels are they?

Ok, I bite. What are they?

The lack of a real conflict in the playerbase (ie, Horde vs Alliance).
The lack of a real marketplace system.
The lack of PvP (perhaps not fundamental, but definitely a lame decision)
The hideous art direction and style
Poor interface design (the black bars in particular drive me nuts, talk about wasted space)

350,000 in february, don't know about now. But the audience is quite different. Call it elitary all you want.

Let's just say EQ2 players are more likely to LARP on the weekends.

How can something be addictive by design without being fun? Enlighten me.

Because they're designed to cater to elitism. The urge to get to the high levels because then you're finally better than everyone else. It's about satisfying a psychological urge instead of having fun. Some people have fun in the process, but it's still the same in the long run.

WoW is designed to be fun. There's no tricks into getting players buying multiple accounts, for instance. Leveling isn't a painful experience.

EDIT: Your epic endgame pictures look impressive, but can you explain me, why they keep reminding me of Captain America?

Which epic endgame pictures?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher

That's the same thing WoW has, but more with the battlegrounds and PvP honour system. In fact, those are the most interesting parts of the endgame. Farming for new items/recipes/reputation is only so fun, but having Battleground systems and the PvP honour system is something else.

I agree... without PvP you might aswell be playing a single player game. The only meaningful interaction you ever have without the option of PvP is bickering about who gets the loot - kind of defeats the purpose of a "massively multiplayer" game.

Actually, that was really evident the last time I played EQ - everyone was playing a singleplayer game. You couldn't get a stranger to acknwoledge your existance if your life depended on it.... unless you happened to be hunting in a spot he wants to himself.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Asher
A lot more time. What levels are they?

They are my tradeskilling alts, so their adventurer level is only 8. You can be a tradeskiller in EQ2 without being an adventurer, actually. Time will come I set them off as adventurer, too.

The elven mage is a jeweler and has tradeskill level 28. The halfling rogue is a level 24 woodworker. And the erudite priestess is a level 32 alchemist. Tradeskill levels are comparably hard to attain as adventurer levels.

The lack of a real conflict in the playerbase (ie, Horde vs Alliance).

I give you this one, I am angry about this myself.

The lack of a real marketplace system.

It has a marketplace system (the "broker"), with a sufficiently good search system. What it does not have yet, is offline selling. This however is about to change, and soon. I give it one more month.

The lack of PvP (perhaps not fundamental, but definitely a lame decision)

Umm, that's the same as your first point. It does not count extra. There is no "real" conflict in the playerbase without actually having PvP.

The hideous art direction and style

That's HEAVILY in the eye of the beholder, ya know.

Poor interface design (the black bars in particular drive me nuts, talk about wasted space)

What black bars?

Are you referring to the empty areas above and below your gaming window? They are there to place your user controls. If you don't like them, you can increase the size of the central viewport and even make them vanish completely.

Now where's the wasted space?

Everything is by the way customizable, and nicely so.

Because they're designed to cater to elitism. The urge to get to the high levels because then you're finally better than everyone else. It's about satisfying a psychological urge instead of having fun.

That's a bit weak, friend.

WoW is also about getting to the high levels, perhaps even more so. Because not being there makes you worse than everybody else. So the difference is slim. In WoW it's ridiculously easy, in EQ2 you have to earn your level, but in the end the result remains the same.

WoW is designed to be fun. There's no tricks into getting players buying multiple accounts, for instance.

The EQ2 playerbase taught Sony a thing or two about this. Multiple accounts were needed for the lack of offline selling. This is about to change in the next month.

Which epic endgame pictures?

I refer to that Orc Shaman in Earthshaker armor. Looks like a toy soldier for eight years old.

[General Ludd]

Personally I think Everquest 2 has more potential than WoW, but is also even further from the mark in reality.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
That's a bit weak, friend.

WoW is also about getting to the high levels, perhaps even more so. Because not being there makes you worse than everybody else. So the difference is slim. In WoW it's ridiculously easy, in EQ2 you have to earn your level, but in the end the result remains the same.

WoW is less about leveling. I consider the journey to 60 a learning experience, maybe the tutorial/training. It's about learning how to play your character, slowly gaining more abilities as you do it. By the time you're 60, you're ideally a good player and ready to enter the realm of PvP and 40-person raid groups.

I refer to that Orc Shaman in Earthshaker armor. Looks like a toy soldier for eight years old.

Looks better than this guy in EQ2, who looks like a character from Star Wars.

[Asher]

New WoW content patch out today (v1.3): http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...mented.html#ui

They added Dire Maul.

Also, screenshots of more armor sets/mounts from the upcoming honour system:




And of the upcoming Battlegrounds:



(airstrike!)

[DrSpike]

Guys guys, there are always going to be those that prefer one approach to the other. There is room for 2 games you know.

Personally I think WoW has it about right for levelling, and benefits from having PvP. However, EQ2 will probably get it eventually, and levelling speed is a matter of taste and depends on how much time you are willing to put in.

Horses (mounts?) for courses.