Might and Magic VII help - 0 quest?

[SCG]

Has anyone ever gotten a '0' (zero) quest before? i think it got it because I managed to complete both the stealing of Fort Riverstride plans and rescuing of Loren Steele but not sure. I don't suppose it is a completable quest, is it?

As a side note, I accedentally cleared out the Tularean Cave before obtaining the Rescuing quest (amazing what you can kill with fire aura and 4 elven longbows ), creating another strange situation of Queen Catherine proposing the quest, then not speaking to me until after 30 days had past - then thanking me for rescuing Mr. Steele - i tried 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 days by bouncing back and forth between Deyja and Etheria - even after 50 days without ever visiting the cave again, I completed that quest.

I'm just kinda worried that by aiding both sides in the human-elf war will create further problems later in the game. It does appear that the game continues as I received a quest to retrieve a trumpet after wandering aimlessly for another 15 days or so.

SCG

[Grumbold]

I've had the 0 quest bug, but I think it is just a visual error that you are stuck with. Its been a long time since i searched the forums for that one.

[vmxa1]

It does not mean anything. Just ignore it. I forget the trigger for it. I just treat it as a period at the end of the list.

Are you going light or dark?

[SCG]

Originally posted by vmxa1
It does not mean anything. Just ignore it. I forget the trigger for it. I just treat it as a period at the end of the list.

Are you going light or dark?

ok - 0 treated as a period

as for light or dark - actually planning on doing both, so been working on completing the neutral quests - can create some interesting comments by the NPC's

suggestions on which to do first?

[vmxa1]

You can't do both. When the time comes (let me know if you want to know when that is) you will have to pick one or the other and will be stuck with it.

What he is saying is you must choose the path of dark to be able to become a black knight. Some promotions have a counter part for light and dark and one will be foreclosed to you. You can to the the same thing as they would, but will not have the quest nor get the promotion. There is only one that you cannot get into the dungeon without the quest.

I will be happy to answer any question, but will try to not give you information that is explicted or tip off things, with out your requesting it.

[SCG]

I still hope to do both I've been saving the game periodically and backing up the set of saves as well from time to time - so if i really had to i could have gone back to a save 10-15 levels ago to not prematurely clear out the cave... So what i should be able to do is save before i actually make the choice whenever it finally arrives and set that in a separate folder. Then either play out one side in its entirety then go back to the save and play out the other side without having to complete all the prelims again.

Of course with all the zone resetting that goes on i wasn't sure quite what to expect - I think i've killed the goblins outside Harmondale about 4x

[vmxa1]

Yes if you save before making the choice, you can go back to play the other side.

If the goblins have respawned, you have delayed too long. Go to the seer and ask for a hint.

[SCG]

Originally posted by vmxa1
If the goblins have respawned, you have delayed too long. Go to the seer and ask for a hint.

um, yeah, about that respawning stuff - i neglected one piece of information trying to find the lost dwarves - i cleaned out all the barrows, the mansion and even the nighon tunnels before i realized that the red dwarf mines weren't in the barrow downs took a trip to avlee to realize that I must have spent forever taking on gogs, goglings and Magogs (felt like captain Hunt ) did build up a tidy bit of experience and a minor fortune of a bank account. made me kinda wonder why i needed to find the dwarves to finance the castle when i had a quarter million gold pieces in the bank )

anyway - finally nearing the point of choice - should i try it first with the offensive dark or the defensive light?

[vmxa1]

I figured you may not have made it to the Mines straight away. Rescue of the dwarves is the trigger to two things. One of them is the first clean up of your castle. You do not pay for that, it is a reward.

The other is the count down to the death of Judge Grey (iirc his name). Anyway I nearly always play the light. This is because I hate the trial to pass the test for the Dark. I like the dark side, but I hate the test. The light test is so easy, I take it 9 out of 10 games.

Not to mention that having the DoG spell is so useful. As long as you save before you actually drop the new judge off you can go with either path.

You do not need to worry about how many quest you have done before either side. The only one that comes to mid that is dependant on having a quest before you do the dungeon is the X-mas STOLE. All the path dependant ones are not available until after the test is passed.

[SCG]

Originally posted by vmxa1
The other is the count down to the death of Judge Grey (iirc his name). Anyway I nearly always play the light. This is because I hate the trial to pass the test for the Dark. I like the dark side, but I hate the test. The light test is so easy, I take it 9 out of 10 games.

Not to mention that having the DoG spell is so useful. As long as you save before you actually drop the new judge off you can go with either path.

I may try and pass the dark side test first since i tend to play a bit defensively - might be more of a challenge (high level cleric constantly keeping everyone alive with a paladin to assist in tight spots) - that and since i've had so much gold to burn, I've bought a whole lot of pure stat potions and kinda have a permanent DoG situation

On a side note - any idea why the game reccomends a goblin for the fighter type? my human rogue has 1/2 the endurance of my goblin paladin (69 vs 110), yet has nearly 50 more HP

[vmxa1]

Goblins have attributes that they have a different cost to advance on. Humans treat all traits the same, so they are good all around.

This means a Goblin gets to add 2 points in some traits for each one you add to that trait. Other traits require 2 points added to move up 1. So since they get 2 for 1 on might, they are great knights.

Since they get 1 for 2 one intel and personality, they make crapping clerics or wizards.

Hit points are a function of several things. Body building increases them as well as your promontial level and class.

Paladins start at 30, while a knight starts at 40. The Pally gets 4 HP for each base level it adds, while a knight gets 5. For 1st promotion level it is 7 for a knight and 4 for a pally, 9 vs 6 for second promotion levels.

Then they recalc the HP for endurance. Anyway a Rogue has been promoted and a Knight has not, so they get their HP recalc at the new 1st level rate. If all attributes are the same and the levels are the same a knight will have more than other base level characters.

Give one of the party a bunch of items that boost its endurance and or extra barrels for endurance and they will pull ahead.

The main issue to me on Dark vs Light is I have to build my party up to a higher level before I do dark. Since you have done a lot more adventuring than most by the time you get to the trial, it will probably not matter.

[SCG]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Goblins have attributes that they have a different cost to advance on. Humans treat all traits the same, so they are good all around.

This means a Goblin gets to add 2 points in some traits for each one you add to that trait. Other traits require 2 points added to move up 1. So since they get 2 for 1 on might, they are great knights.

Paladin (Crusader) - level 47 goblin
bodybuilding - basic(4)
endurance (permanent) - 70
endurance (with eq) - 110
HP 330 (350 with eq)

Thief (Rogue) - level 47 human
bodybuilding - basic (4)
endurance (permanent) - 33
endurance (with eq) - 69
HP 379 (402 with eq)

Give one of the party a bunch of items that boost its endurance and or extra barrels for endurance and they will pull ahead.

after training the crusader at the bodybuilding expert and raising the skill by 1:

Paladin (Crusader) - level 47 goblin
bodybuilding - expert (5)
endurance (with eq) - 110
HP 380 (with eq)

Thief (Rogue) - level 47 human
bodybuilding - basic (4)
endurance (permanent) - 33
HP 379 (no eq)

personally, I'd consider the goblin Crusader boosted, and yet only has 1 single HP higher than an equal level human rogue with 1/4th the endurance, and inferior bodybuiding skills. I'm leaning towards a human fighter if i start another party

[vmxa1]

This is a class issue. A Thief goes 5/6/8 (bae/1st/2nd), a Pally goes 4/5/6. I would say a Goblin is medicore or poor Pally as it get 1/2 value for Personality. That is an important attribute for any healing class. So you are getting the boost for might from a Goblin, but lossing on the Person/Int aspect.

Actually I see knwo good reason to use a Pally, except for the fun of it. They are inferior fighters to Knights and inferior healers to Clerics.

[vmxa1]

Not sure if I have this correct, but here is my best shot:

Rogue

47 Level * 6 (Rogue) = 282
6 * 4 (BB at level normal times base = 24
Endurance 33
Total 339

Not sure where the mising 40 comes in. Any spells or items to add? I will try to test this tomorrow.
Pally

47 * 5 = 235
5 * (2*5) = 50
End 110

Total 395

I am not sure if by base they mean the class base to start or the new base for the promoted class. I used the promoted base.

[SCG]

the main reason i use a paladin is because i want a second healer in the party. The paladin is used primarily as my fighter with It allows me to do things like have the cleric cast cure insanity and the paladin cast cure weakness in the same round. or lets the paladin occasionally supplement the cleric in other healings. and with only 4 party spaces as compared to 6 like a lot of the AD&D games use, it's not really a good use of a PC slot to have 2 clerics. And of course the paladin is supposed to be one of the fighters so he can primarily fight but heal on the side if we need to make a run for it. thought about using a cleric and a druid, but find the sorcerer much more effective since it appears there is a limited # of times you can use a pure stat potion (making the grandmastery in alchemy kinda pointless) of course if the rogue has more HP with expert bodybuilding than a paladin does with mastery of bodybuilding, maybe a rogue as the tank, cleric, druid and sorcerer may fit my needs.

hmm, was re-reading the manual - the game actually makes the thief and monk as better fighters than the AD&D fighter classes (ranger, paladin)... i'm thinking d8 HP for ranger/paladin and d6 HP for thieves... of course my sorcerer has more HP than my cleric sunk a lot of endurance into that char too - for now think the paladin is the best tradeoff for a 2nd healer and still getting a fighter type in the game