PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 6)

[Protra3211]

Here is a corrected file for Goals and Strategies is just a miner tweak.Changed Seige priority to 7000 which was 6200 before.Added a diplomacy text file with settings taken from AOM mod.The other files Goals and Strategies are write overs of playtest files.Settings were taken from 1.11 for Goals(found in aidata folder) for just the Seige and Attack scetions

[Maquiladora]

Giving those files a test now Protra.

I wanted to give Martin's new AI SLIC a try but it was generating a crash, at least I think it was related to the SLIC. Here is the log anyway, though I don't have the autosave anymore unfortunately:

Version 2007-12-15
  0x00578f3e  [??0GameEvent@@QAE@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@H0@Z + 0x6e]
  0x0057ab09  [?ArglistAddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@@Z + 0xa9]
  0x00559b15  [?DoInstruction@SlicFrame@@QAEHW4SOP@@@Z + 0xc05]
  0x0055a8ac  [?Run@SlicFrame@@QAEHXZ + 0x4c]
  0x0053d1aa  [?Execute@SlicEngine@@QAEXPAVSlicObject@@@Z + 0x8a]
  0x00573b00  [?GEVHookCallback@SlicSegment@@UAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@@Z + 0x80]
  0x0057a5f7  [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QBE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x37]
  0x0057afb8  [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x28]
  0x005790dd  [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x2d]
  0x0057aa36  [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xd6]
  0x00432c25  [?dh_endTurn@@YAXPAVDQAction@@PAVSequence@@W4DHEXECUTE@@@Z + 0x35]
  0x0042b2f3  [?HandleNextAction@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0xc3]
  0x0040c55b  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x11b]
  0x00406f94  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394]
  0x004069f5  [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
  0x007fbafc  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x776a3833  [__onexitbegin + 0x76ce1cfb]
  0x7753a9bd  [__onexitbegin + 0x76b78e85]

I'll test it again as it hasn't given me any problems in my scenario, and I think it would be a great addition to put with the AE Mod once it has been fully tested. If Martin agrees of course.

[Protra3211]

I did a test on my game with those files .Every thing loaded up fine with no problems.
Cant wait till I have my first war,Want to see how the AI reacts.Have a very aggressive civ near me the Mongols so the wait may not be long. They also have the strogest milatary.Every thing ponits to a very good contest.
I dont feel I have won the game if I cant conquer at least half the civs in the game .Started with 8.Diplomatic win is ok and of course a sciance victory.High score is too easy.

[Maquiladora]

A couple of comments from my latest playtest:

1. You need at least one move point remaining to expel a slaver (and other stealth/civilian units I assume), but when the slaver is expelled the move point is not removed. Either you shouldn't require a remaining move point, or it should remove one move point for expelling IMO.

2. On the intelligence screen on the civ's domestic tab, when you have an embassy, what is the point in showing which of their cities have wonders, when you can see all those cities in the wonders tab on the rankings screen without an embassy anyway? It's not really intelligence.

More useful information for this window could be for example, number of units of each type for that civ, like they are shown on the military advisor in the unit manager; "Flanker: 39%: 29 units". Showing actual unit names (25 Pikemen, 20 Archer etc) would be too useful I think though.

3. I won't comment too much on the AI as obviously there are a lot of tweaks and improvements that can still be made. But regarding attack/siege, the AI was waiting outside my city for far too long (around 5-10 turns) before they attacked, even when they had no bombarding units in their army to at least bombard the city.

Anyway, after moving around 12-18 units around the city, they finally attacked with a full army (against my full army) and they recaptured their city, though if I had been more awake I could have reinforced the area with more units and possible attacked them first, but they should get credit for moving many units to the city as soon as I captured it from them.

I did a test on my game with those files .Every thing loaded up fine with no problems.

Yeah Protra, your files didn't cause any problems.

[Protra3211]

Played to 220 turns and so far every thing has been ok.
Using the cheat I was able to glance at some of the AI civs to see how they were doing.
Well Mongolia which is on my border has 17 cities and over a 160 units unbelieveable.At war with just one civ and its seem they are mopping up.Most AI civs are around 14 cities and about 75 too a 120 units.
The to AI to AI diplomacy has been ok -only wars here and there which hepled some to expand fast.Thats perfect as fighting on too many fronts weakens the AI.
Something odd has happened. The Mongols which have a personalities Agressive Imperialist -I was abbe to get a peace treaty with.But the Polynesians which have a Populist Zealot personalities I cant seem to get a peace treaty.This never happened with 1.11 version.
Most because of code changes that have made the personalities act in new ways.Still the AI is doing very good with expanding by means of war.Good AI
tactics ,strategies ,hope its the same when coming against the human player.
Has the code work inculded personalities of the AI?
Maquiladora thats great and I hope the new settings will keep producing the same results.Im still building up waiting to be ready for war.See how goes.Now its a matter of fine tuning the diplomacy.

[Maquiladora]

Reached turn 260 in my game and I'm finally starting to pull ahead scientifically. There are a few reasons for this:

1. I got many MANY advances from ruins, perhaps more than 10. I don't think the AI explored as much. Advances perhaps past the ancient era should also be excluded from ruins.

2. I'm at war with one much stronger AI (in no. of units) but they won't attack me with more than one stack every 30 or so turns. Obviously theres not many tweaks to the AI movement yet, so it's probably unfair to judge this. Especially as I've seen with Martin's SLIC the AI can be very good.

3. The AI almost stops building more cities usually around 20-25 cities. This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't combined with number 4...

4. Eventually the AI cities stop growing fast enough. I'm going to start a new game with lower turns to growth requirement for AI cities to aim for, and see how they do then. Hopefully they won't continue to build lots of mines and just use more farmers instead.

[Protra3211]

At the 267 turn and so far its been just building up to get ready for war.Lost my peace treaty with the Mongols and cant seem to renew it.So I have to watch it as they have overt 2x my military power and over 20 cities.
Have met one more civ and at least can keep a easy druce. Will soon have the diplomat which should help with diplomacy.The AI is not getting into too many wars .
Very hard for me to expand as to the north and south is a small body of water.The Mongrols are the only one,s within reach for now.Need to build a navy .There is at least one civ stronger then them Rome.Very odd game .The only one,s expand by war is Rome and the Mongrols.Will hope diplomacy with the new civ I met will produce some results.They lead in technolgy.Maybe a they will sell off some of it.

[Maquiladora]

I noticed a couple of things with my last game.

It seems the Slavs decided to settle inside my borders. I captured the land with forts a long time ago and they had settlers wandering around for a long time, I guess they just got tired.

Also I noticed with forts that sometimes after building the vision will disappear, but when you build a road on top the vision will come back.

My latest save is here: http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?...ngl-1360AD.zip

[Martin Gühmann]

It is time again for a new playtest version. This time we have bunch of AI improvements and something pretty cool for those of you who are especially lazy. If you are not only too lazy to handle your specialists and build queues but also too lazy to handle your unit movements and everything else, we got for you full empire automation. Just open the chat window by typing the apostrophe key (') and enter "/attach n" where n is the number of your player, which you can look up in the scenario editor for instance, then hit end turn, and everything is done for you. You can download the latest version from here.

Edit: Removed links. For an up to date version of the Apolyton edition click here.

Here are the changes made since the last version.

2008-02-10 (Revision 849)
Fixed:    The single player civilization screen updates the leader names again.
          It displayes the civilizations in alphabetical order again,
          in scenarios only selectable civilizations are displayed, and the game
          is stareted with the selected civilization.
Added:    The AI road pathing can now be visulaized if an accroding option is on.
Fixed:    The AI now builds a road network from its threatened cities.
Fixed:    The AI now adds special units to the build list even if not all
          garrison units are build.
Fixed:    The nationality of slaves who are working in a city are now displayed.
Fixed:    City icons can be seen by everyone again.
Added:    If an AI army is in the vision range of a goody hut, the goody hut gets
          an high goal bonus.
Changed:  Slaves go to more than the closest city.
Fixed:    The AI now sorts its plans according their match values, plans that
          need an high amount of units get an extra bonus.
Changed:  If you try to move an army into a transporter with less room than the
          army has units, the army is partially moved into the transporter.
Fixed:    The chat window command /attach p now turns as it should be the
          player p into an AI. This allows watching the AI while it is playing.
Fixed:    The initial city interface is no more shown if the visible palyer 
          is an AI.
Fixed:    Autosaves are now done even if the visible player is an AI.
Fixed:    The game can now be saved even if the visible player is an AI.
Fixed:    The AI fills now also empty build queues at the end of a turn so that
          newly founded and captured cities do not end turn with an empty build
          queue.
Fixed:    Settlers now display the full first ring of a city.
Fixed:    Non-Settler units cannot settle on top of a city anymore.
Fixed:    The AI now checks all its cities for rush buying of items.
Fixed:    The AI does not use the move costs at the current position and 
          the target position anymore to estimate the distance.
Fixed:    The AI calculates now its transporter capacity before it needs it
          and not after planning its goals.
Fixed:    The AI uses now the transporter that is closest to the troops to be
          transported and not the transporter that is closest to the target.
Fixed:    The AI does not try to use full transporters.
Fixed:    Now the AI calculates its garrison needed for guarding slaves correctly.
Fixed:    The AI does not try to move its sea transporters over land to reach 
          the troops that have to go on board.
Fixed:    The AI starts to move their transporters to the goal on the same turn
          when they have been filled.
Fixed:    If the AI needs for a stack more than one transporter it now uses more
          than one transporter.
Fixed:    Holding diplomatic receptions costs now the displayed amount of gold.
Changed:  The unit herald is now a shield like in Civ2 and CTP1.
Added:    Messages for failed slave raids with and without dying.
Removed:  A superflous message that one of your cities was captured.
Fixed:    Expelling now removes move points.
Changed:  The domestic tab of the intelegence screen now shows the capital if
          you know were it is or if it has a wonder.
Changed:  The domestic tab of the intelegence screen now shows instead of cities
          with wonders all cities if you have an embassy otherwise the cities
          with wonders and the cities you know are shown.
Added:    New database flags for modders:
- StartegyDB:
   UseBaseMoveCostsForRoads         Stategy makes the AI to plan roads by using
                                    the base terrain costs instead of the 
                                    terrain move costs inclduing terrain 
                                    improvments if its value is not zero. Its 
                                    default value is 0 and taken from ConstDB.
   BuildRoadsToClosestCities        Strategy makes the AI to plan roads from 
                                    each to n other cities. The default value
                                    for n is 5 and taken from ConstDB.
   BaseRoadPriorityVsThreatRank     Strategy gives the AI a base road build 
                                    priority to that the threat rank is added.
                                    Its default value is 0.01 and taken from 
                                    ConstDB.
- ConstDB:
   UseBaseMoveCostsForRoads         Default value for the flag in StrategyDB.
   RoadAlreadyThereCostsCoefficient The part of costs the AI deducts for tiles
                                    along a path that already has roads.
                                    The default value is 0.5.
   BuildRoadsToClosestCities        Default value for the flag in StrategyDB.
   BaseRoadPriorityVsThreatRank     Default value for the flag in StrategyDB.
   ConiderNumCitiesForSlaves        Const gives the number of closest cities
                                    that are considered to send the captives
                                    of a slave raid.
- GoalDB:
   InVisionRangeBonus               Goal adds a bonus if the target is in the
                                    vision range of an army.
   NoBarbarianBonus                 Goal sdds a bonus if a target is in vision
                                    range if no Barbarians are around (i.e.
                                    no Barbarians can pop up from a goody hut).
   CanAttackBonus                   Goal adds a bonus for armies that can attack
                                    if the target is in vision range and 
                                    Barbarians are around. (i.e. Barbarians can
                                    pop up from goody huts).

[Maquiladora]

Just ran a few short play tests with this and the AI seems to be a lot more decisive in attacking now. It won't wander away when it's right next to a city, which is great. The new tools for watching the AI (properly) are very useful too.

I noticed one thing - the elite icon, was it changed to be below the veteran icon on purpose? As it used to just replace the veteran icon when a unit became an elite. I don't mind either arrangement, just wondering.

[Protra3211]

Maquiladora your right about the AI being decisive.Early rush tactics to wipe out a civ near your border(was about 100 turn in the game ) is now a alot harder.AI will spread out 4 amd 6 stacks of units with many splittigs to meet you in the open field.Was able to take one city but lost most of my army with the AI still able and doing so-attacking near the border to kill off my units.Its the best management of the AI.s army I have seen so far of any playtest.AI lloves its slavers so look out.Thats why the early war wanted to get even.Have to play more defensive now and watch my back.Martain made of list of changes and most were on AI improvements .

[Tamerlin]

Thank you Martin,

The list of changes and fixes is impressive. Thanks a lot for the work. I hope to have some free time in february and thus be able to resume the translation of the new strings.

[Ekmek]

Great work Martin, I'll check it out too!


just curious, did anyone ever get around to expelling units from an AI's borders if you declare war?

[Maquiladora]

The change in rev845 to stop non-settlers settling in cities seems to be stopping even settlers settling in cities now.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
The change in rev845 to stop non-settlers settling in cities seems to be stopping even settlers settling in cities now.

confirmed. when I tried the game i noticed that too

and i couldn't tell if the xpel upon declaration of war was added in or not (atleast not yet)