4 Player MP Game - Maq, EPW, Toni, Barley.

[Toni]

Great Maq, oh something else, lets include the 200% forts and if we can try and make the fortify for the units stronger. Can we do that? Hate it when there are equal units and the one fortified gets killed, which is rather strange to me.

Ok guys see you tomorrow at 8gmt.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Toni
Great Maq, oh something else, lets include the 200% forts and if we can try and make the fortify for the units stronger. Can we do that? Hate it when there are equal units and the one fortified gets killed, which is rather strange to me.

Yeah I've done both of those. Forts to +200% and fortify to +100%.

You need modswapper to use it so you dont need to back up most of the files, you can download it here.

By the way I dont think you can get modswapper to backup the files infoscreen.ldl and loadsave.ldl from the folder ...\ctp2_data\english\uidata\layouts so make sure you backup these 2 files before you extract the mod.

I made plains 5 food 10 prod 5 commerce too because its a lot more interesting and spreads fair but different land everywhere. Here is every change anyway:

x5 slower sci

x1.75 giga map (increased continent amount proportionally to prevent tiny isles)

no ruins

no graphs (including one in load/save screen)

all tech choices
starting 3 techs - religeon, agriculture, toolmaking.

fortifying a unit gives +100% defence (was +50%)
fort defence +200% (was +50%)
----------

terrain:

Food/Production/Commerce

Was > Is now

Add time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to add this terrain
Remove time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to remove this terrain

River
+5/+5/+5 > +5/+0/+5

Forest
Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Add cost 800 > 200
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
10/5/10 > 5/15/5

Plains
10/10/5 > 5/10/5
Add time 1 > 5

Tundra
Remove time 2 > 5
0/5/0 > 5/5/0

Glacier
Add advance adv. composites > gaia theory
Remove advance adv. composites > gaia theory
Remove time 5 > 10

Grassland
Add advance toolmaking > agriculture
Add time 1 > 5
Remove advance toolmaking > agriculture

Desert
Add advance agri. rev > conservation
Remove advance agri. rev > conservation
Remove time 1 > 7
Remove cost 400 > 800
0/0/5 > 0/10/5

Swamp
Remove time 1 > 5
Remove cost 400 > 800

Jungle
Add advance agri. rev. > indus. rev
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
Remove cost 200 > 400
5/10/5 > 10/10/5

Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/15/10 > 0/15/5

Hill
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
5/10/10 > 5/10/5

Shallow Water
10/10/5 > 10/5/10

Deep Water
10/10/5 > 10/5/10

Submarine Volcano
0/25/15 > 10/20/10

Beach
10/10/10 > 10/5/10

Continental Shelf
5/10/5 > 10/5/10

Sand Dunes
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
Movement 2 > 3

Desert Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/10/10 > 0/15/5

Polar Hill
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
0/5/5 > 0/10/5
Movement 2 > 3

Polar Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/10/5 > 0/15/5

Kelp Bed
15/10/5 > 15/5/10

Coral Reef
10/15/5 > 10/10/10

all terrain defence values x2

---------------

after the above changes are made, all terraforming and tile imp cost +50%

EDIT: Removed the attachment for now while we decide what else to change.

[EPW]

I disagree with reducing commerce on mountains/hills, don't see any need for it, espacially since we can't use specialists.

[Toni]

I don't agree with those values:

Plains
10/10/5 > 5/10/5
Add time 1 > 5

Forest
Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Add cost 800 > 200
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
10/5/10 > 5/15/5

Jungle
Add advance agri. rev. > indus. rev
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
Remove cost 200 > 400
5/10/5 > 10/10/5

How can jungle be better then plains, and why should adding forest be so cheap?

[Maquiladora]

I disagree with reducing commerce on mountains/hills, don't see any need for it, espacially since we can't use specialists.

Because the production and more so the mines on hills/mnts is a big enough advantage dont you think?

How can jungle be better then plains,

Its harder to remove and improve jungle than it is plains, ie you cant place a farm on jungle, but you can place any tile imp on plains.

and why should adding forest be so cheap?

Thats kinda what I thought too after playing. What if we make it 400 (and will be 600 after the +50% change)?

[Toni]

Right you are Maq for the jungle/plains issue, i agree with you 100% now.

Sorry wasn't able to get you on this?

"What if we make it 400 "(and will be 600 after the +50% change)?"

Afcourse this changes look great for a start, we can aways adjust them as we go on.


Thanks for the great work Maq.

[Maquiladora]

Sorry wasn't able to get you on this?

"What if we make it 400 "(and will be 600 after the +50% change)?"

I meant we can increase adding forest cost then from 300 to 600? (it says 200 in the long post I made because that doesnt include the +50% increase we said to do but it is changed right to 300 in the file).

Afcourse this changes look great for a start, we can aways adjust them as we go on.

Absolutely, i only played one game upto Fascism with these terrains so its hard to tell yet but you definitely will get a better chance if you start near forest.

[EPW]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Because the production and more so the mines on hills/mnts is a big enough advantage dont you think?

I just think science is slow enough as it is, reducing commerce on mtns/hills is too much.

[Maquiladora]

I just think science is slow enough as it is, reducing commerce on mtns/hills is too much.

I noticed you didnt build any ports in the one-before-last game, once you get enough cities and many commerce improvements science flies along, or you can go for growth and have slow science.

Having 10+ production AND 10 commerce on hills/mnts is a kick in the face while theyre down for someone without hills or mnts.

[Barley]

These improvements look interesting, just so your aware I imagine they will make the game a lot longer.

I will try out the terrain changes this week.

EPW – re the sci, with the current x3 it goes pretty fast still. I play by maxing as much as possible, I know I had better land than you last game but was still about 30 sci turns ahead of you. Try building more tile imp if you can, I tend to put mostly Trading posts on my second ring and also ports on all coastal tiles. As Maq said sci still goes pretty quick.

See you all at 8.00 (I will be on ICQ from just after 7 if you can make it any earlier that would be good)

PS. Toni, those tanks will just bounce off my Leviathons…….

[Barley]

Oooh Maq, just thought is it 7pm for us anyway (clocks went back last night)

[Toni]

clock went back here as well with an 1hr. So its still 8gmt the meeting right?

[Barley]

EPW, Toni & I were in lobby at 7.00 but coming back in about 40 mins.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
By the way I dont think you can get modswapper to backup the files infoscreen.ldl and loadsave.ldl from the folder ...\ctp2_data\english\uidata\layouts so make sure you backup these 2 files before you extract the mod.

If you used ModManager instead of ModSwapper then you could get it to back them up and replace them for you (at least in theory ).

[Maquiladora]

Really? I havent even tried ModManager yet or rather not since a very early beta. Although we're all pretty used to replacing those 2 files now it would be easier.