Multiplayer Strategy Guide 2nd Version

[blackice]

Mathemagician gameleague, what is a game exploit to you? Mine under city was the game intended to do that?
Switch rush buy was the game intended to do that?

It does but if the designers had intended for people who play the game to use these bugs do you not think they would have included them in the rules or the tutorial? Of course they would have after all a game is designed to be played the same by all players or it's not much of a game is it? Rules they make or break a game.

I too have seen many oddies and have the saves. One game I am in now, pop up says x attacked your x ( fill in the x) then it says under it your have discovered a new government ..... WTF is that. New one for me. I am also seeing way too much mine under city etc in games they should not be being used.

#2-Kinda like "laws of the land" They have been defined here and a multitude of times.. Gl too many times...

Come on Troll give up your goods
I created a monster picture poster

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Mathemagician



where do you get all those pictures from, troll ?

ok..go to WWW.Google.com

{TYPE IN ABBA RA KA DABBA RA..HOKUS POKUS NOSE COME WITH MUCUS...

Um not exactly..try this}

then go to images

type in a subject...

shows a huge picture category..

"right click" and save as and start your collection..

Basically depending upon the post or response..is what I go looking for!!!

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
BUT the point here is this math..we are talking about blantant abuse...

Hope this clears it up 4 u?

there is nothing unclear about that.
what i wrote there was a general note on cheating.
if you dont know it and the information is not easily accessible, you shouldnt be punished.

as far as paul is regarded, im sure he knows what is allowed and what not. so remains the question whether he committed what blackice claims.

all im asking is that blackice be aware of the fact that anyone who hasnt got this personal experience with paul will need more than his claims to believe what he is saying.

if there is one side saying so, the other so, a proof is what is needed. at least to get any kind of legitimate decision done. and isnt that the goal of blackice' posting the issue here ?
else, we can spend the rest of this eternity argueing and expressing what we are convinced of respectively.

[Maquiladora]

I think what i read on H's CtP site a long time is still right, every online game will have its bugs, and even if it doesnt have obvious exploits, people will make programs to alter the game the way they want, no game is free from cheaters.

In the end it comes down to trust in each of the people youre playing, thats why any large competitive online league will be very difficult to maintain, but a small community can florish.

[blackice]

Did you read throught the links provided Math?

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by blackice
Mathemagician gameleague, what is a game exploit to you? Mine under city was the game intended to do that?

I THINK it was intended, or at least would make the most sense, if the mine/farm didnt disappear when you found a city. and so we have the question again, what is the actual bug.

Originally posted by blackice
It does but if the designers had intended for people who play the game to use these bugs do you not think they would have included them in the rules or the tutorial?

quite honestly, no. they would likely not list all this stuff.

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Um not exactly..try this}

then go to images

type in a subject...

shows a huge picture category..

"right click" and save as and start your collection..

Basically depending upon the post or response..is what I go looking for!!!

the same as what i am doing.
just curious.

Originally posted by blackice
Did you read throught the links provided Math?

i read all the posts. did i miss any links ?

[blackice]

Maquiladora exactly I quite like "H" he provided us with the save the opponents turn crack so you could actively save games without being the game starter. He disliked cheaters too and tried to do something about it. He was a nice guy too. Worth the trip to his site people if you have not already been there.

Filix did you use the switch rush buy? Did Yoda, did paul, did zeratul, ming I am sure the answer is yes, you?
They have all admitted to it's use and that is not the real issue here. The real issue is simply because one comes and tells this community they used it and here is what it does are they a hero? Did they still cheat? If they continued on to find more and not disclose them knowing full well these new one's were the same thing, cheats and not disclose them are they still cheating.

IMHO yes of course they are...

If someone here finds a new bug and does not tell the rest and uses it against people here to win games until someone finds out is it cheating?
Of course it is, the excuse you did not know does not wash, it can be over looked for rookies but anyone who has player here for any period of time 6 months or more knows the rules period.

[Mathemagician]

well, id say in case of the farm under city bug, its not that clear which version is the bug and if building the farm during the right turn is merely the workaround.
it may be more clear in other cases, like rush buy switching.
what we lack is an authority to actually decide case by case if something 1.) is a bug, 2.) should have easily been identified by the respective player as a bug.

may i ask, blackice, what was your original intent when you started this discussion ? was it some sort of actions to be taken ?

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by Mathemagician
may i ask, blackice, what was your original intent when you started this discussion ? was it some sort of actions to be taken ?

to quote myself here, that question is quite important, because for a real action there is certainly more proof needed than for an agreement of several players that someone IS cheating.

as for proof, could you please dig up that quotes of paul for me, blackice ? if it is easy to find them, that is.

[blackice]

quite honestly, no. they would likely not list all this stuff.

Actually if I am not mistaken some of these bugs were designed as short cuts for the designers and NOT intended for use by the players. That was a direct quote if i am not mistaken by one of the designers refering to the switch bug. It was posted a long time back in GL that was the direct result of hundreds of emails sent to activision by players once the GL mods, fudged the ruling.
So i would disagree what games do you know of where they design it for you to figure it out?

None I am aware of they all come with rules and tutorials.

Mine under city is a powerful tool you think they left it out, for what reason would they leave switch rush buy out?
No I think you are barking up the wrong tree what game designer in thier right mind would leave out some of the powerful tricks of the game///
Now mine under city i can see an arguement for it but bottom line it would have to be agreed to by all players before the game starts and most important the opponent knows what it is how to use it before the game starts. If not IMHO the person using it would be cheating the other. Why? Because it is not in the rules, tutorial, or mentioned anywhere at all in the game files or game site.

It would then create an unfair advantage and the victory would be hollow. Kinda like playing a game with loaded dice only you can use...

I think you are ignoring the obvious Math, paul has admitted to it's use they all did... What more proof do you need?

I posted in response to Filix's comment paul does not cheat. He did he admitted to it, further more the ramping was never disclosed and paul continued to use that to defeat opponents knowing full well he was again using a bug an exploit to claim to be the hero, winner of all. No after all tis time you would figure paul would know what was acceptable honest gaming and what was not. Would'nt you?

[Mathemagician]

Originally posted by blackice

quite honestly, no. they would likely not list all this stuff.

So i would disagree what games do you know of where they design it for you to figure it out?

not for me to figure out. just make a game complex and then forget to mention something in the tutorial. period.

it was only an example anyway.

Originally posted by blackice
Now mine under city i can see an arguement for it but bottom line it would have to be agreed to by all players before the game starts and most important the opponent knows what it is how to use it before the game starts. If not IMHO the person using it would be cheating the other. Why? Because it is not in the rules, tutorial, or mentioned anywhere at all in the game files or game site.

its useless to discuss what would have been had the bug just been discovered. it is known for a long time and the rules say it is cheating. so why do we argue about that ? i merely used this as an example for new bugs to be discovered.

Originally posted by blackice
I think you are ignoring the obvious Math, paul has admitted to it's use they all did... What more proof do you need?

first of all i would need THAT proof.
you still havent shown me where he did that.
("proof" as in "convincing a person undetermined in their opinion, so as to nullify contrary statements of third people")

also, you havent answered my question what you are leading to with this discussion.

unless i get a response on either of these, its time for me to drop out of this discussion.

[blackice]

Humm interesting, on another note I found this little tid bit while browsing my old files. Amazing what one saves.
Check this out:

For the benefit of all this is the low-down on how to configure your proxy server and the game to play Internet games through some kind of firewall. Turns out to be easier than originally anticipated. If you're messing around with proxy servers yourself then you should be able to follow this.

1 - PROXY SERVER

Create a UDP Mapping Service which maps to a server of your choice, eg, uk1.alink.activision.com. Use port 21157, which is what the server listens to.

2 - CIV:CTP

Edit the bootserv.txt in the ctp_program\ctp directory so that the second listing of the server on each line is replaced by the name of the proxy server on your LAN. For example, if your proxy server is called wingate, change

uk1.alink.activision.com uk1.alink.activision.com
to
uk1.alink.activision.com wingate

For more info on Activision server configurations please check out Dan Kegel's server FAQ: http://us4.alink.activision.com/anet.html.
Another article he has written on peer-to-peer networking across the Internet is at: http://alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/peer-nat.html

Now if I am not mistaken this should solve all the winxp problems. Note it gives what we have been trying to find the UDP port number. had this all the time simply forgot about it. DOH!

Dang the links are dead but the info should still be solid.

I think you are ignoring the obvious Math, paul has admitted to it's use they all did... What more proof do you need?

I posted in response to Filix's comment paul does not cheat. He did he admitted to it, further more the ramping was never disclosed and paul continued to use that to defeat opponents knowing full well he was again using a bug an exploit to claim to be the hero, winner of all. No after all tis time you would figure paul would know what was acceptable honest gaming and what was not. Would'nt you?

Math ask anyone around here of the original people it is common knowledge. Arguing this point with you is mute simply ask someone else.

[Mathemagician]

got the bootserv modification, but i dont know what number 1 means. can you help me with that ? but if it takes a higher amount of concentration id rather do this another time as im pretty tired

[Mathemagician]

btw, i have win 2000 pro, not win XP. will that be the same ?