The Chiron Chronicle: Discussions (Restart 3)

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Natan
If Lal is going to act like that, than Yang will back the Believers to the hilt, and mobilize Morgan and Zakharov against Lal. Yang will point out that Lal has declared himself Emperor of the Earth, and wants the other factions to kow-tow and bring tribute, to take orders from him and to fund his army which oppresses them. Yang will also declare that if the PKs do not recognize his sovereignty, than he does not recognize their's. And so on.

Official PK responses to this criticism:

Lal has declared himself Emperor of the Earth (...)

To the contrary, Lal is keeping people like Yang from doing this.

(...) and wants the other factions to kow-tow and bring tribute, to take orders from him (...)

No, you don't have to take orders from us.
Simply adhere to the principles of the U.N. Charter and refrain from committing atrocities, and we'll be off your case before you know it.

(...) and to fund his army (...)

Not so. We fund our own operations.
-But of course, if you WANT to help...

(...) which oppresses them.

Are we oppressing you?
Only if saying you can't commit atrocities counts as "oppression".
-In which case we reserve the right to "oppress" anyone, any time, anywhere in this particular manner.
As for sovereignty, as long as you don't use it as some kind of excuse to commit atrocities, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Also, if there IS a problem, we will always try to TALK to you about it before we even THINK about doing anything else. So, the only way you can possibly get in trouble with us is by not being reasonable at all, in which case it is hardly our fault...

[Natan]

Sorry Guardian, an order to follow the UN charter is still an order, and one which could be quite offensive to a number of factions. Yang will have a field day. He'll compare you to Athens, bossing around the Delian Leage in the name of freedom.

[Guardian]

May be still an order, but it is a legitimate order which should offend no one!

Besides, as long as the U.N. Charter has not been repealed by the Planetary Council, this order is from the Council, not from the Pacekeepers alone. So, you're barking up the wrong tree here. If you have a problem, bring it to the Council and voice your opinions there like any other civilized nation. (That will be under "C" in the dictionary if you need to look it up... )

As the Americans used to say, we'll "see you in court!"

[Natan]

Originally posted by Guardian
May be still an order, but it is a legitimate order!

Besides, as long as the U.N. Charter has not been repealed by the Planetary Council, this order is from the Council, not from the Pacekeepers alone. So, you're barking up the wrong tree here. If you have a problem, bring it to the Council and voice your opinions there like any other civilized nation. (That will be under "C" in the dictionary if you need to look it up... )

As the Americans used to say, we'll "see you in court!"

Planetary Governor Morgan did not authorize the Peacekeeper faction to dominate the others in the name of the UN charter. You can only enforce the charter with the council's permission, Lal.

[Guardian]

Wrong again. The Charter itself not only authorizes but actually calls for its' enforcement by anyone who is in a position to do so.

[Guardian]

The Peacekeepers will argue that Yang clearly doesn't know enough about the Charter to properly discuss it. It is politely suggested that he might wish to consider reading it before starting an argument about how it should be enforced...

[Argonaut]

All right, down boys. Let's save it for the game. Although, it's good to see that you two are already in character.

LordLMP,

I think SmacFanatic said he was going to take over the Gaians this time around, and just do filler work for the Cyborgs as need be. Too much tension between the University and Cyborgs, so SmacFanatic thought it might be better to move to a different theatre. That was the last I heard at least.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Guardian
The Peacekeepers will argue that Yang clearly doesn't know enough about the Charter to properly discuss it. It is politely suggested that he might wish to consider reading it before starting an argument about how it should be enforced...

The Believing Diplomatic Corps are shocked of this disrespecting attitude of the Peacekeepers. We insist that you apologize the Hive for slandering them like that. Also the BDC would wish to state that the Peacekeepers are well known of "altering" the so-called UN Charter for their own purposes

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Guardian
Wrong again. The Charter itself not only authorizes but actually calls for its' enforcement by anyone who is in a position to do so.

Ummm, it would appear a slight clarification is in order here:

Under the U.N. Charter, although anyone who can is supposed to enforce it, a state may not legally intervene in the internal matters of another sovereign state. Only the United Nations may take such action. However, the Peacekeepers still ARE the U.N. We never abandoned our mission to go off in pursuit of any other goals, so we still are what we have been all along. Hence, we (in our own opinion anyway) still have all the legitimate authority that was given to us by the original Council back on Earth. It was never officially changed even though our mission broke up. So, here we are and it's not our fault that you people chose not to be with us anymore. Once again, if you have a problem, talk to the Council...

Originally posted by kassiopeia
The Believing Diplomatic Corps are shocked of this disrespecting attitude of the Peacekeepers. We insist that you apologize the Hive for slandering them like that.

No offense was intended. However, it is important that we all have a shared understanding of the topics that are being discussed in this Council so that there will be no unfortunate misunderstandings at a later stage.

Also the BDC would wish to state that the Peacekeepers are well known of "altering" the so-called UN Charter for their own purposes.

Really? Now these are serious accusations.
Supporting evidence please?

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Guardian
Really? Now these are serious accusations.
Supporting evidence please?

Ahemm....
The executive director of the BDC would like to apologize an intern gained access to our commlink No offense intended Just some diplomatic bickering

[Mr. President]

Currently, I have plans to maintain relations with Yang and Zakharov, despite the problems existing between them and the Chiron Alliance. I have reasons to be wary of the Peacekeepers due to their strategic alliance with the Data Angels, who did some damage in their breakaway, and the Gaians, whose environmental policies threaten Morgan Industries' business plans.

As Morgan currently holds the Planetary Governorship, he could attempt to use his diplomatic power to build (or coerce where necessary) favorable business, and begin to close his grip on Chiron's economy. He should, however, avoid being too heavy-handed or unilateral in his approach, particularly if he wishes to stay Governor.

I am also eager to begin the move back into space. Morgan Industries is currently devoting a considerable amount of funds towards the development of space exploration technology.

[DarkCloud]

The Peacekeeprs might *try* to regulate the other factions, but unless they are the chair of the Planetary Council, the other factions may look upon their reglation as an act of war by placing 'Peackeeping' forces in others' factions.

am also eager to begin the move back into space. Morgan Industries is currently devoting a considerable amount of funds towards the development of space exploration technology.

A good goal. But I believe the best he can do in SMAC is get an orbital destruction facility and map making orbiter to determine what the other factions can do

Please take technologies only on that line of research if you wish to acquire spaceflight again.

He should, however, avoid being too heavy-handed or unilateral in his approach, particularly if he wishes to stay Governor.

You'll at least have a while to try this- but within a few months the elections for Planetary Governor will again come up.

-Good Luck!

[Kassiopeia]

Hmmm... The space has significance, it can be used to extract minerals and energy, or it can be used to attack or defend. How about orbital insertions? Do these things I just mentioned come in to the picture until MY 2300?

[Natan]

I know I should save this for the game thread, but it's too much fun to resist.

So in short, Lal claims that he, and not the council, is above all factions and the rightful ruler of Chiron, because an organization from a dead planet declared him so over a century ago.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Natan
So in short, Lal claims that he, and not the council, is above all factions and the rightful ruler of Chiron, because an organization from a dead planet declared him so over a century ago.

I always considered Lal's authority over others hazy, at minimum. First of all, Captain Garland was the commanding officer and leader of the mission, but I don't have evidence of Lal being the Second Commander. I always thought Ship Surgeon's were on a different branch in command hierarchy.
Secondly, like Natan pointed out, who cares about the UN? Lal's whole power is based on it, so naturally he cares, but really... I don't disagree with the human rights sections (so far ) but does the Charter state that the "highest UN official" should take command?
And if this is so, then accepting the UN charter would basically mean accepting Lal as your leader. And I see no reason why an independent faction would agree to this.