Comment on the "Spartan Chronicles"

[Slats]

Googlie,

I noticed but I'd already posted and hoped you would notice. Sorry for being such a pest, thanks!!!

What did you think of the post?

Slats

[Rynn]

Googlie:

You leave Stazi to me, do you hear?

She's doing just fine while you sleep and dream.

Actually I thought I'd help out with Kurt as you seemed to have a lot on your plate with Yang, Deirdre and Santiago. I'll carry on with the plotline with Kurt for a bit then pass him back. Or e-mail me.

And Slats, I thought that your post was about time. The younger Junta members are right - there's a war to prosecute.

Vel: I'll be getting Shauna and Ron together soon, I promise.

Rynn

[Googlie]

Rynn:

We almost cross posted. Ok, I'll leave Kurt and Anastasia to you (while I sleep on blissfully unawares of what a Lara Croft-ish character Stazi really is ...)

Slats:

Liked your post. i need to get cracking now as Santiago to get the council meeting called (but Yang will love to have the UN Charter repealed as well)

And, btw, I picked up the David Brin books that have been missing from my library - Toronto has a bookstore that they bill as "The Biggest bookstore in the World"

Cheers

Googlie

[Slats]

Thanks for the complements. Appreciated!!!

Slats

[Hydro]

Hi all,

Guess what? I just posted my 101st submission to Spartan Chronicles!

Who'd a thunk it?

Hydro

[ProvostB]

attn vel and googlie....

when do i have to do my part?

[Hydro]

Provost,

No need to get permission from anyone - SC is an open story.

Just jump in!

Hydro

[Jasonian]

Hmmmm....

Let's see here... inclusion of Domai, revolt at a Hive base, they declare Domai their leader.

And the kicker: Domai was high in Yang's society!

Hey Paul! At least we know SOMEONE reads the Crossfire Tales!

[Googlie]

Hey, Jasonian:

First rule of authorship - plagiarize

Second rule - plagiarize some more

That's what the original Firaxis Episodes were for, and now their faction profile - Australian, even - says he was a plant manager.

And yes, I did read and enjoy your "revolt" (At least I didn't have him give your speech word for word)

Googlie

[Hydro]

Jasonian,

Well, technically it was a revolt against Morganite capitalist exploiters by a disillusioned Hivean official in a Hive base that originally revolted against Yang to Morgan due to the machinations of Morgan and Yang’s senior operative Ashaandi (whew!). But details aside I suppose you are right…

Isn’t imitation the sincerest form of flattery?

Hydro

[Vi Vicdi]

I have to agree with those who have objected to excessive 1984-style "Police State tactics" as a modus operandi of the Spartans.

Obviously the Spartans have a high tolerance for police -- capital punishment, tear gassing disruptive protests, etc. -- and they ARE allowed the "Police State" Social Engineering choice. But the "right to keep and bear arms" trumps some of the more intrusive Big Brother stuff.

Moreover, a society that exists to protect the right to bear arms obviously values individuality on a very deep level, and I picture Spartan society as more like the American West than a South American dictatorship.

Obviously Waco proves that the "right to bear arms" means very little once one starts [foolishly] shooting at the police, so the "government held in check" argument is weak. (I blame Waco squarely on Koresh, by the way. 100%. He was a lunatic, and he was going down in flames no matter WHAT the government did.)

However, despotic governments are always paranoid of their own people, so they always enact, as their first major policy initiative, gun control. Private gun ownership is more like a canary than an insurance policy. Put another way, one can't fight City Hall with guns, but if City Hall doesn't recognize that fact, it is strong evidence that City Hall is becoming increasingly paranoid and out-of-touch. Taking guns away from law-abiding citizens is an indication of paranoia directed against law-abiding citizens. It is a fact of psychology that dishonest people are the most suspicious of those who treat them honestly. What, then, should one make of government officials who fear their own law-abiding citizens?

The Spartans seem to me to believe that a strong society must be built on the foundation of strong citizens, armed and prepared to face whatever threats they may encounter. Cracking down on dissenters fits the profile, but treating everyone as a potential Threat to The State would seem to be precluded by the prime belief in the right to bear arms.

Spartans have a higher tolerance for police probably more because they police themselves, at a local level, than because they are passive about being policed by Big Brother. If a protester whines about getting tear gassed, a true Spartan would reply, "If you didn't want to pay the price you shouldn't have been blocking the road." That doesn't mean Spartans wake up every morning proclaiming to their Telescreens, "I love Big Brother!" That's Yang's angle.

[Hydro]

Vi Vicdi,

Nice commentary! And I have to say I agree with you on a Spartan police state, and argued a long time ago in this thread that they would have evolved beyond such 'thuggery' (petty dictators with enforcers and death squads, etc) or they would have dissolved long ago. Thinking back, there haven't been a lot of posts about life as a Spartan under a police state. Googlie wrote a couple of early posts after his character Scott 'Googlie Allardyce declared marshal law. Most of those revolved around crowd control and how some police became a little too enthusiastic in their job. I wrote a similar piece for the ill-fated Pointa Sur, focusing in on their police station and the atrocity committed there. Even then the Sergeant said that 'we have to live with these people, and one day the police state will end'. The only Spartan death squads that I recall were The Inquisitors, which were characterized as an extremist fringe group.

The other characterizations of the Spartans are that almost everyone serves in the military, and that it is The honored profession. As such, it attracts the best and brightest. If almost the whole of society were trained in military thinking and training then it would be hard to impose the worst of a police state as you describe it.

A lot has been done with Yang's society (he is a great bad guy, isn't he?), and he definitely fits your model of an extreme police state. Heck, they even have Yang's Little Red Book!

I am curious, though. Did you get the impression from the SC posts that the Spartans were gun control advocates? Or that they were big fans of thought control (as opposed to duty and towing-the-line)?

Hydro

P.S. - As to gun control in general (which your post touches on), I would suggest that different societies have different standards. I would hardly call most Western European governments despots, yet they generally have pretty strict gun control. In this way the Americans may be the exception rather than the rule.

[Slats]

Hey Everyone,

I need the Spartan Chronicles map, can someone mail it to me or tell me the URL where I can find it?

Thanks,

Slats

[Googlie]

On its way, Slats

Googlie

OOPs, too fast (I'm on vac and haven't got your e-mail addy handy)

send me your addy and it'll be on its way.

G.
[This message has been edited by Googlie (edited December 29, 1999).]

[edgecrusher]

hey googlie, did you get my email...? it was from edgcrusha2...