New pbem

[Kataphraktoi]

Originally posted by t_ras
I'll take The Hive and D , then.

Corrected

Ok, Mart has added more land, now can we play? I'll still take E or A if I lose a "roll-off."
What faction is the AI player going to be now? Is there going to be one?

I think we could just take spots on a first come first served basis, mart and i coming last since we both edited the map. But is mart OK with my map edits?

[Kataphraktoi]

Arcainite:E
JMarshFox:sent prefs in a PM to mart. but you need to post it so we can pick spots without overlapping claims.
t_ras: D
kata:
Mart:

I would like position B if its untaken, near Mount DragonMoney

[Mart]

JMarshFox chose in this order:
D or A(if D taken)
I believe, T_ras posted first for position D, so that would be A

I'm a bit confused about Gaian-Hive-Believers.

so we have:

Arcainite ------: Spartans ------- E
JMarshFox ----: University ------ A
t_ras ----------: Gaian - Hive - Believe. - D
Kataphraktoi-: Morganities ----- B
mart7x5 ------: PK ---------------- C

It is Friday noon in my time zone, I will take the land increased map and prepare the scenario this evening. So game is forwarded to first player within 12 hours from now.

Last notes
- T_ras, please clarify which faction
- I propose to start game in 2100, however please note, you get only half row of minerals in your base. This is so everyone sets up his own password in this year - then University should get choice of free tech (CMN does not need to do it in the scenario), any comments/proposals?
- We can start with additional one colony pod + 2 scouts
- AI will be slightly enhanced - established 4 bases.

[JMarshFox]

Gah, sorry about that, for some reason I got it in my head that we were sending them in by email...

I agree with starting the scenario in 2100, and I am amenable to whatever starting conditions the rest of you want to have, but the ones suggested by mart seem reasonable.

[t_ras]

I took Miriam since K didn't like me taking the hive.
Marts suggestions are fine with me.
Lets hit the road

[Kataphraktoi]

Hey, i said taking hive was fine as long as mapsize OR landmass increased, which it has.

[Mart]

So, T_ras, you may take Hive or Miriam. Let me know within 9 hours

[t_ras]

Hive 1ox

[Mart]

During year 2100, we can discuss these rules:

Rules

• Upgrades using the design workshop can only be done at the end of the turn. This to prevent upgrading eg a simple scout rover to the best modeal available and let it attack the same turn - makes it harder to defend.
• Retro-engineering allowed, except for using basic unit types such as probe teams, AI formers, etc...
• Social Engineering settings may be changed only once per turn. No "quickie" changing. No change first --> second --> first in the same turn.
• Stockpiling in Build Queues not allowed at any time. However, please note, that if leave the queue empty after the facility or secret project you get additional energy. You can leave queue empty and use this additional energy.
• Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden. So is airdropping from outside a base/airbase, or after having moved (except on a magtube) using the same method.
• Base growth through Colony Pods - can be used to increase a base size up to the applicable pre-facility limit, but cannot be used to breach that limit without the facility being built.
• Psi (or any other) units cannot be assigned multiple waypoint patrol routes (to avoid instant demon boil bug)
• It is not allowed to set the home base (Control-h) for a unit to be the base of another faction when the diplomatic stance is pact. The unit will then require no support from either faction.
• No base trading with the AI. No trading base for base, no trading base for money. Extortion and gifting is allowed.
• It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for credits if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative.
• Cannot change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists, for example by using the F4 screen (or the bases icon of the F2 screen)
• Transparent Commlink Logs - It is forbidden for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing the .sav, to open a .sav file (current or past) with a text reader program (eg word, wordperfect, notepad, etc etc) as the in-game commlink exchanges are embedded in text in the .sav file and can be read by anyone. For that reason, and also to keep the save file size low, it's highly recommended to do all private communications per e-mail.
• It is forbidded for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing any gamesave, to select left hand menu, then Game, then Resign. If hit accidentally, then immediately select the "No! Get back in there and fight" option. Selecting the "yes, time to slink away in shame" option triggers the game end scores and map expansion from the start (thereby revealing the start locations and limits of expansion of all seven factions).
• No communications without the correct commlink.
• Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
• If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.
• Demanding withdrawal to a human player through the menus rather than by negotiation in the forum by private message or email is prohibited.
• Bribing (or accepting bribes) for votes through the diplomatic channel box by clicking on the human faction leader's picture is prohibited (must be conducted by diplo message or e-mail).
• Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden. If a reload is necessary because of a game crash etc., an explanation should be posted to the turn administration thread.
• This bug is not allowed: Normally, a base must have an Aerospace Complex to be able to build orbital facilities. However, if an Aerospace Complex is the item currently being built, then orbital facilities can be added to the build queue. If production is switched to something other than the Aerospace Complex, the orbital facilities remain in the build queue and will be built without the need for an Aerospace Complex.
• This bug is not allowed: On the turn a terraformer completes its terraforming task, its "flag" will be grayed out indicating that it has moved. Clicking on and activating the terraformer will allow a new terraforming command to be issued to the terraformer with the correct number of turns to completion displayed. Clicking on and activating the terraformer again, cancelling its new orders; at this point, the terraformer will have regained one movement point. Using the more advanced technique of this bug is also disallowed.
• It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.
• It is not allowed to mind control with standard probe teams units or bases of any faction that runs a +3 or higher SE Probe rating.
• Due to the probe rollover bug, an enhanced probe team mind controlling a unit of a faction running +3 or higher Probe SE, would only have to pay half the credits it would have had to pay without the bug. To compensate for that bug, the probing faction needs to get rid of a sum of credits equal to the probe cost. This can be done by for example significantly overpaying for a hurry order, meaning the credits are wasted.
• It is not allowed to locate bases in unexplored tiles.
• You can't ask an AI to stop the war with a human, unless you have permission of that human.

[Mart]

Game launched. Everything seems ok.
The turn tracking thread is here

[t_ras]

OK, few rules I don't understand:
- It is not allowed to mind control with standard probe teams units or bases of any faction that runs a +3 or higher SE Probe rating.
- It is not allowed to locate bases in unexplored tiles.
# It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.
and does the above mean if a base revolts from me to another player I can't try to prove it back? even if he proved it to revolt?

[Mart]

This is how I understand these rules:

Originally posted by t_ras
- It is not allowed to mind control with standard probe teams units or bases of any faction that runs a +3 or higher SE Probe rating.

From alphax.txt:
3, +3 probe team morale; Bases and units cannot be subverted by standard Probe Teams!!
This rule here is because of probe roll-over bug. If it's 4 (if i'm not mistaken) or more, it gets value 0, so game engine allows these probe team actions. You need algorithmic enhancement in probe teams to make such actions according to intended rules. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

- It is not allowed to locate bases in unexplored tiles.

When you click unexplored tiles usually map centers there, however if you click a tile that happens to have some other faction base, map does not center. This way, by trial and error you can locate bases in unexplored terrain. It's considered a bug.

# It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.
and does the above mean if a base revolts from me to another player I can't try to prove it back? even if he proved it to revolt?

This rule is for the cases like in smax, when Free Drones may receive bases revolting from other factions. Free Drones are exposed to easy infiltration this way. I'm not sure this happens in SMAC, I mean revolts like Free Drone cases. Anyway, I think the reasoning is that if benefited faction (e.g. Free Drones in SMAX) does not want the base, it would not contain security information that you could 'infiltrate' being it tech or hacking into information web. Thus the faction is obliged to dismantle the base, which can be done slowly, since obliterating in one move caries penalties - atrocity for 10 turns. If benefited faction wants to keep the base - it can be infiltrated, like the base gets access to security info from hq base, and then you can try to get it back.

Well, you mean dismantling/starving may take many turns, kinda obstruction for play. I think you could retake it, but not infiltrate. What others think?

[Arcainite]

My opinion

I think that if you lose a town due to a rebellion then the faction that lost the town has the right to invade and attack the rebels even if it now belongs to the faction that the rebels favored.

[Kataphraktoi]

Ok, but what is disallowed is allowing a base to defect and having probe teams standing by to probe it.

I think that if you lose a town due to a rebellion then the faction that lost the town has the right to invade and attack the rebels even if it now belongs to the faction that the rebels favored.

You can do that. What the rule says is that if a town defects you can simply demand the player turn it over to AI or disband it and he must comply. Trust me, this rule is very much required, otherwise major exploits are possible

[t_ras]

OK, all fine with me. only that it might happen I won't know a faction has 3+ proving...