Naval Clash - Second Thread

[Mart]

Geo, you first used PB in the game? .... I mean some crazy computer did it right?

[GeoModder]

No, it was an automated response on a sneak attack by the University.
No 'humans' came in the decision loop.

I probably could have forced the Gaians in a truce again, but they needed two bases for that.

[Rubin]

Barinthus? Sankis? Are you reading?

[Sankis]

Originally posted by Rubin
Barinthus? Sankis? Are you reading?

I'm here.

We should just end it here, personally. The RP is pretty much concluded, and the actual game is an easy win for Rubin

[Barinthus]

Alright, consider it finis.

I'm curious why did University feel the need to secure the seas for the Pirates?

[Rubin]

There were, as the story progressed, several pointers suggesting a University support to the Nautilus Pirates.

My memory may fail me, but I recall having the first diplomatic contact with the Pirates. We were close neighbors and came--without any problems--to a peaceful settlement of factional borders.

The Atlanteans were kind and cooperative is many ways. However, their aggressive exploration efforts (compared to the other human led factions)--and sometimes questionable investigations of Unity Pods--made the Atlantean intentions less obvious. When I see troops disembarking from a naval transport onto my main landmass, I do not rely on words and explanations--I rely on actions. The Atlanteans did--in what seems to me a greedy opportunity--land troops onto my main landmass and very close to my western border. While there were no signs of trespassing such actions were viewed as deliberate and legaly agressive.

The threat of a growing Atlantean Kingdom made it easy for the University to side with the pirates. While I cannot speak for the captain, it seemed to me that the Nautilus fleet was determined to contain the Atlantean naval domination--and potentially global domination.

Other foreign affairs further strengthened the pact between the University and the Nautilus Pirates: The war against the Peacekeepers and the Gaians and the peaceful relations with Chairman Yang (whom the Data Angels and the Atlanteans decided to terminate!).

There is more to this issue, including the University vision of territorial division and sense of unity between the factions; but I believe I've stated the outlines of the University grounds for Nautilus support. However, I'll gladly elaborate if requested.

Finally, I'd like to send an unreserved apology to GeoModder for expressing my frustration on the diplomatic foundations of Atlantean actions.

[Mart]

I thought about including the map from this game in the Single Player Map Collection under the name Naval_clash.
Is it acceptable for you? The game is now over

[GeoModder]

No apology needed, Rubin. That last chat cleared that issue up. Altho I continue to feel frustrated about some things. There was simply no need for an allied attack on the Kingdom in my opinion. Sankis could have expanded on his portion of the map as much as he desired, without interference from my part. The only thing I ever asked was to leave the Gaians alone, which for still unclear reasons wasn't an option for both Uni and Pirates.

And the threat of a growing Kingdom? Uni was at most times the largest and generally most powerfull faction in the game. What I did was merely trying to hold the pace. Futile in the end for I'm not the sort of player who likes ballooning out (why do you think I pressed a normal sized map in the beginning?). 'Domination' was always the Uni outcome for the last 50 turns or so.

The 'agressive' exploration was of course done. As a naval faction I of course roam the map in search of pods. Land factions may not be aware of that, but it was a continuous race between mine and Sankis' ship(s) to pop them. I happened to be a bit more lucky in popping no hostile IoD's. Further more quite some of these pods helped me to keep pace with the Uni again. And IIRC I was not the only one popping land pods near your western borders, Rubin. I've seen at least one pirate scout heading straight into your territory to a pod.

What I feel most bad upon, is players' general attitude towards AI factions. They are there to be discarded for most of them, nothing less. That was the main reason for my 'defense' of the Gaian faction, and that was the main reason as well to take a sweep into Nautilus bases, appearantly just in time to halt an impending pirate sneak attack.

I guess, for gaming purposes, I'm to concerned about the 'feelings' of those AI's to be a 'good' player.

(and damn why didn't I empty Neptune Bottom that turn? I would have loved to see the look on your face with that PB next to it, unable to reach another important target. )

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Rubin

Other foreign affairs further strengthened the pact between the University and the Nautilus Pirates: The war against the Peacekeepers and the Gaians and the peaceful relations with Chairman Yang (whom the Data Angels and the Atlanteans decided to terminate!).

Actually that was his own fault. He started the war with the Angels and damn nearly decimated my faction if it was not for the Kingdom's assistance in war materials and advisors along with some from the Uni.

My war aim was to defend the faction, retake lost bases, and capture three of his bases as a form of reparations and to create a buffer zone between the Hive and Angels' core bases.

However after those war aims were achieved, the Kingdom pretty much backed out of the war, seeing that it's no longer neccessary for them to be involved anymore. From that point it was all Angels. Everytime I attempted to contact Yang (right before each base my troops were about to take) he would insist on me to surrender. I was trying to press him into surrendering unconditionally to me but he decided to fight to the bitter end.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Land factions may not be aware of that, but it was a continuous race between mine and Sankis' ship(s) to pop them.

You're right I was unaware of this.

[Mart]

I have a question to Sankis and Geo. Have you ever thought about combining your strngths and force land factions to consider you as superior factions on the planet?

[GeoModder]

Combining with Sankis? The guy barely responded to diplomatic messages, and was way too assertive for easy allying. I had good contacts with Rubin and Barinthus in turn, but Sankis preferred to stay on his own.

[Barinthus]

I wanted to add that I enjoyed this PBEM very much especially that we took time to roleplay a bit. Also I've picked up few tips and have learned from my experience here. U guys have been terrific and hope to do it again sometime in future after some more experience lol.

[Mart]

Originally posted by GeoModder
...I had good contacts with Rubin and Barinthus in turn, but Sankis preferred to stay on his own.

This was a good roleplay from Sankis' side. While Atlanteans were more into peaceful conquest of the seas, Pirates stayed as pirates - more aggresive. I mentioned that, because when designing the scenario someone specifically asked for low erosion world. Majority agreed and due to this land areas were quite extensive. This maybe gave more advantages to land-based factions, but after all 5 of them were like that and only 2 were sea based. I thought, that you both Sankis and Geo might come to a conclusion, that ensuring victory to either of you might require cooperation in eliminating land factions first. You might have then 2 naval clashes:

- sea vs. land, when Rubin and Barinthus potentially would have to come to you in their naval vessels to stop you when you would had started your offensive against land.

- sea vs. sea, final duel between Pirates and Atlanteans

Rubin used excellently what was given to University. Even without entering the marshes to north-west, just using some rainy terrain, high altitude mountains built very strong faction. Also "Rubin reservoir" has been closed to any intruders from the sea who might thretean Rubin University Base.

I still think Atlanteans did have a chance to defeat University if Geo did not self destruct his bases. Rubin, what is your oppinion on that? If Atlanteans did not go to the sea, do you think Geo might win? Would the confrontation be like between two militarily the same powers?

[GeoModder]

There was quite a bit of contact between me and Rubin in the first half of the game.

Issues came up for the Ascetic Virtues project. I had the first chance of taking it, and if I didn't let me talk out of it, my popcount would have stayed way closer to Rubins'. But OTOH he said to me he simply couldn't allow me to have that project, so perhaps that would have started an early war between our two factions.

Also, if I wasn't so stupid to put my second PB in that Pirate base, I could have knocked out Rubin's capital or two other bases with important military projects in it if I had chosen to use them.

But in the end, Rubin's advanced tech would take the better. only in that last turn could I start to drop probes near enough his frontier bases to get some extra tech. And in that last turn I managed to mindprobe Rubin's neutron armor drop infantry near Socialism Tunnels. So a few turns later I could have produced 1/8/1 AAA base defenders, but would not have AC's to have full benefit.

Oh, and about Rubin Reservoir... I managed to smuggle in a sealurk.

And a question in return: do you think I could have placed my bases better or used availabe space better? I realize that it would have benefitted me more if I colonized some land instead of sticking to the sea, but that was a roleplay -and defense choice.

Military, I think Sankis was as much a match to me as I was one to Rubin.