LapTop Collection 2: the Crossroads of Life

[Rubin]

Gentlemen,

We need to resolve this issue. Having considered the comments very carefully I have reached this conclusion:

1) Replay the Free Drones turn without any midturn saving.

2) IF the three of you can agree on a different solution then I shall accept this. Otherwise, IF anyone objects to a Free Drones replay then our CMN is to rule on this matter. The CMN ruling is final.

(Note: I could post my thoughts on this matter but I fear this would only complicate the issue; however, I shall gladly elaborate if requested. We also need to decide how to deal with the voting mechanics in the future--no matter how this particular election issue is resolved; that is, how we deal with elections in the future should not have any impact on the current issue.)

[Chip_Buckner]

I agree with Rubin.

I hope my comments were not read to suggest that anyone has done anything improper, because I do not believe that to be the case. I, in particular, want to note that I have no objection to a "mid-turn save", so long as it does not affect the environment that player sees during his turn.

Shoot. I bet Googlie joined because he believed this was going to be a fast-paced game. It will get better, I promise!

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Chip_Buckner
Shoot. I bet Googlie joined because he believed this was going to be a fast-paced game. It will get better, I promise!

It'll certainly get faster if those evil ruthless cyborgs eradicate my peaceloving faction

GGLIE

[Net Warrior]

I hate to drag my feet here, but before I decide anything, I'll like a ruling on whether or not we've encountered a bug.

Also, since one prospective Governor is at war, it seems to me that we all have a vested interest, one way or the other, to a lesser and greater degree, in the outcome of the election. Maybe we should just let the CMN decide.

However, if the 3 of you say replay, then we'll replay, case closed.

[Rubin]

Net Warrior, having further considered the available information, I believe this election feature is a bug. However, the game (including the multiplayer part) has many bugs; some which indeed can be exploited. Some of the bugs/exploits have been taken care of in additional game rules (house rules) while other bugs we just have to live with...

Originally posted by Net Warrior
Also, since one prospective Governor is at war, it seems to me that we all have a vested interest, one way or the other, to a lesser and greater degree, in the outcome of the election. Maybe we should just let the CMN decide.

If what you are implying here is the case then our CMN should decide NO MATTER WHAT! Discussing a game event like this in the context of personal interests is a pointless waste of time. If we cannot trust each other to set aside personal in-game interests when dealing with a bug (or perhaps feature) issue like this--then I have nothing more to say on this election issue!

[Net Warrior]

Geez, I feel as thought I've gotten myself into hot water somehow. I hope I haven't offended anyone. Let me try once again to clarify. 1) if it's a bug then I vote for a replay. 2) If it's not a bug, then I don't understand why we are even talking about a replay. I guess I'm missing something.

[Googlie]

I have no problem with NW replaying the turn and voting for Zak. That was my intent when I first called elections (and when I passed the turn on, there was no way I could win)

I don't see it as a bug, so much as the unfortunate consequence of lack of programming foresight. It can only happen in a year when one of the vote-affecting SP's get completed, and then only when the game is saved during that event's turn.

The program's intent clearly is that the vote gets cast upon first opening the turn

[Net Warrior]

Ok, so that's Googlie, Chip, and Rubin for the replay. I'll get started on it right away. Please keep in mind that there will be at least 3-4 replay messages attached to this.

[Net Warrior]

Ok, we're back on track. 2167 (with many reloads) to Cult

[Rubin]

I am glad that we have settled the issue and look forward to playing M.Y. 2167. There are 2 issues I would like to address:

1) Net Warrior: Even if the 'changing of candidates' is not a bug, you did report it as a 'weird event' and held back the turn until we found out how to deal with this event. We've encountered something similar in Laptop I:

In Laptop I our kind CMN had flagged Hab Complexes as objectives in order to improve the AI. An unforseen side-effect to this was that bases with Hab Complexes could not be obliterated. I captured several bases deep inside enemy territory with the intent to obliterate them immediately. I sold off the most expensive base facilities before obliterating the bases and found, of course, that I was unable to obliterate the bases with Hab Complexes. I brought this issue forward and it was decided that I was allowed to reload the turn and sell the Hab Complexes in order to be able to obliterate the enemy bases. This end result was in accordance with how we 'thought' the game would behave. Technically, I made a mistake by not selling the Hab Complexes first time around but we agreed that this technicality was an exception to 'normal' mistakes.

Hence, when we encounter something unexpected we present the issue to all players. It is my understanding that we strive to preserve the 'original' intent of the game whenever this is possible, fair and reasonable. The 'original' intent may difficult to procure and may be affected by our personal perception of the game in general. Several of the paragraphs in our set of House Rules reflect this (i.e. crawler upgrades, social engineering switching within turns, player contact in the early game, colony pod pop boom, etc., etc.).

My point is that it is valid to discuss whether or not to replay a turn on the sole basis of unexpected/weird events--even if the unexpected event is not caused by a bug in the game (or not viewed as a bug).

2) We need to decide how to handle future election issues. Specifically if we are allowed to change votes midturn. I am undecided on the issue.

(A possible third issue: Since Zakharov was removed as candidate after the Free Drones midturn save will Chip be able to vote for Zakharov during the Cult turn? Or is this 'changing of candidates' only caused by midturn saving? If the midturn saving has no impact on the 'changing of candidates' then Googlie is our new governor, correct? )

[Net Warrior]

I abstained from voting again, and did eveything else just as before too. I did get a less favorable result during an artillery bombardment of a native MW, but the other 2 the ramdom events when pretty much as before.

I agree, we'll have to decide on our new house rules once we here from Chip about which candidates survived. If Zak is there for Chip then my turn was bugged. If Domai is there for Chip then my turn was not bugged, correct?

[Chip_Buckner]

I just loaded the turn. My options were Googlie and Domai. I abstained. Zakharov was retained.

Thus, it appears that even if Net Warrior had played straight through, I would not have had an opportunity to vote for Zak. Logic tells me that this is a bug.

[Chip_Buckner]

Turn to be sent, in a minute or so, to Googlie.

Zak has initiated the Planetary Datalinks.

[Rubin]

Ok, it occurs to me that there is a part of this election which I do not understand. Since Zakharov was retained his votes must somehow have been preserved even though he was no longer a candidate. Hence, it is entirely possible for a 'removed' candidate to win the election. Is this correct?

Oh, and Googlie voted for Googlie, I voted for Zakharov, Net Warrior voted for Googlie and Chip abstained; is this correct? Also, did the AI votes change after the new candidate was introduced?

Originally posted by Net Warrior
If Zak is there for Chip then my turn was bugged. If Domai is there for Chip then my turn was not bugged, correct?

Haha, I believe the correct answer to this is "no", both turns are bugged, though, the bug is consistent through both turns. According to Googlie's information we should be able to reproduce this event. Thus, this is a 'special feature' of multiplayer elections and that is why we may need to discuss how to handle the issue in the future.

[Net Warrior]

For the record, I abstained from voting all 3 times.

Now I think the only glitch was that my vote count didn't double after the midturn save. This leads me to believe that the ability to vote again after the midturn save is the bug. Therefore we should not be allowed to change our vote at that time. So, bottem line, 1. there was no need for a replay, and 2. you may not change your vote during a midturn save.