Realistic Balanced Custom Factions.....

[Natalinasmpf]

Hmm, thought of a new one, sort of like a cross between Gaia and Sparta:

The Planetary Nomads

Agenda: Cohesion of environment and a non-decadent lifestyle

+1 Planet - Environmental Cohesion

-1 Industry - Nomadic, wary of overproduction

+1 morale - survivalist tendencies

+1 effic - Recycling measures and clean lifestyle

50% Psi bonus - excellent guerilla fighters

May not use free market economics (free reigning economic forces held in disdain)

Free ability "cloaking device" with all units with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces (excellent guerilla tactics)

Needs complex for bases to exceed size 5 (Over-urbanisation discouraged)

[Kaboth]

Hey the Planetary Nomads sound alright. They even look pretty balanced. Odd to play though. Do you use worms or troops, difficult decision.

[Quezacotl06]

It looks like a fair faction to me. But I'm not sure how a nomadic, free-spirited people would hate free enterprise.

[Quezacotl06]

actualy, wait, no. 50% PSI Combat bonus is too much. I'd replace it with a free rover (they're an exploration faction, right?)

[Quezacotl06]

Another balenced faction:

Colonialists of Planet
+2 Efficiency (Decentralized municipal and regional management)
+1 Growth ("Smart City" planning)
-1 Industry (Land space reserved mostly for residential zoning)
-1 Planet (Local ecology suffers from rapid expansion)
+50% votes
Impunity Green
Cannot use Police State
Prefer Democracy
Focus nothing

The rationale is basicaly that they rely on expansion and pop-booming to offset the industry penalty and go green (limiting their growth somewhat) in favor of curbing the increased pollution.

[Natalinasmpf]

But I'm not sure how a nomadic, free-spirited people would hate free enterprise.

They don't want enterprise. They want ad hoc economic systems, or an efficient one....

The rationale is basicaly that they rely on expansion and pop-booming to offset the industry penalty and go green (limiting their growth somewhat) in favor of curbing the increased pollution.

I hope you know factions are created based on ideology, not with SE strategy in mind.

A proper, fierce agenda would be nice. Tad too much for some of the options: I think remove +50% votes, because they aren't especially intellectuals like Lal, or anything, and their pop growth would more than make up for it.

An agenda for the children and its welfare, for example. Everything centralised upon bringing up children correctly, because they are the wave of the future.

Reduce effic to +1, remove -1 Planet, increase industry penalty (higher infrastructure costs in budget), receive free children's creche at every base. Or something liike that.

Do you use worms or troops,

Psi troops. ;-)

Actually they are meant to proliferate in the wild. They are adept at mindworm hunting, ingrained into their culture. My inspiration was the Bushmen of Africa, native Americans, etc.

actualy, wait, no. 50% PSI Combat bonus is too much. I'd replace it with a free rover (they're an exploration faction, right?)

Sort of. The PSI bonus is there for the tactical ability.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Quezacotl06
Me private rating sytem for Syndicate Mafia: 12/20.

Try like a 18/20. Upon playtesting I have found them to be excessively strong. I am currenty making revisions to tone them down.

Originally posted by Quezacotl06
Utopia
+1 Growth/Economy/Industry (Good working conditions and social contract)
-1 Morale/Police/Support (Pacifist, freedom-loving)
25% Attack Penalty (Lack of agression)
1 Talent every 4 citizens (Idealism attracts intellectual elite)

Agenda-Eudaimonia
Shun-Power
Focus-Growth

Whoa speaking of excessively strong 21/20. After getting a creche and do the SE Demo/Planned/Wealth you would have:
+2 Econ
+3 Industry
+7 Growth
+3 Morale when in base
-1 Police (more than offset by extra Talents)
-3 Support (Exp Morgan players are used to dealing with this: Clean reactors and Crawlers)
25% Attack penalty (you wouldn't be attacking anyway)
4:1 Extra talents

What you have here is a combo of the best of Morgan, Drones, Yang, and Lal with only Morgan's penalties. That is Utopia all right....maybe you can use it to handicap a newbie in a multi-player game.

Next....

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
The Planetary Nomads

Agenda: Cohesion of environment and a non-decadent lifestyle

+1 Planet - Environmental Cohesion
-1 Industry - Nomadic, wary of overproduction
+1 morale - survivalist tendencies
+1 effic - Recycling measures and clean lifestyle
50% Psi bonus - excellent guerilla fighters

May not use free market economics (free reigning economic forces held in disdain)

Free ability "cloaking device" with all units with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces (excellent guerilla tactics)

Needs complex for bases to exceed size 5 (Over-urbanisation discouraged)

First and biggest problem, by definition nomands don't build cities. But if we pretend, we can get past that point to my next point. Which is te -1 industry should be more like -3 to -5 for a group of people have no permenant home. I mean do they have a fold-up iron smelting factory that they put on there oxen's back?

The +1 planet/eff/morale all make sense.

50% Psi bonus with a +1 planet? Why? Once you go Green you will have a 130% Psi bonus when attacking. 250% once you get the DT/NA and Cybernetics. Imagine a Demon Boil at +250% (or +200% defending) That is the realm of Cult of Planet, not nomads. A +2 Planet and no Psi bonus would make more sense.

I love the idea for free cloaking representing guerilla tactics. Unfortunately, it will come too late in the game to mean anything.

The hab complex is right on, but I think the number should be lower.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Colonialists of Planet
+2 Efficiency (Decentralized municipal and regional management)
+1 Growth ("Smart City" planning)
-1 Industry (Land space reserved mostly for residential zoning)
-1 Planet (Local ecology suffers from rapid expansion)
+50% votes
Impunity Green

Only two problems here. First this is clearly a growth based faction. That growth would naturally negate the effects of Green SE. Saying that you are immune to the growth penalty to Green because of your great growth would also logically negate the benefits of Green SE. You even back this up with the -1 Planet declaring them as a Planet unfriendly faction. If anything you should have a preference for Planned or Demo for the Growth (this faction is clearly a Planned faction btw) and be adverse to Green.
Two, the +50% votes on a growth factioncould get out of control fast. I would do some serious playtesting with that one. The raw numbers of citizens should be enough you don't need to add in the +50% votes.

[ShadowKat]

First and biggest problem, by definition nomands don't build cities.

I'm afraid that argument doesn't hold a whole lot of water with Meier's games, LI. Consider: There has always been a Zulu tribe in Civilization, and Civ2 also had the Sioux, both of whom are/were at least semi-nomadic. I offered up that question myself once, but it's hard to deny the impact of such cultures, despite their lack of permanent leibesruam.

[Natalinasmpf]

First and biggest problem, by definition nomands don't build cities. But if we pretend, we can get past that point to my next point. Which is te -1 industry should be more like -3 to -5 for a group of people have no permenant home. I mean do they have a fold-up iron smelting factory that they put on there oxen's back?

'

It is a semi-nomadic lifestyle. Nomads do have favourite grounds they sort of settle, it is like camps they establish.

The 50% Psi bonus is meant there for a good reason, I guess. I may lower it to 33%. It is the main strong point I offered, meant to make up the early part of not having free cloaking. I may make it a -2 Industry and make hab complex requirements 4.

Or permit me to add in a -1 growth and raise effic and morale to +2?

+2 Effic
+2 morale
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+1 Planet
+50% Psi Bonus*
Free cloaking ability with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces
Hab Complex Limits Raised by 3 (Meaning cannot exceed 4 and 11 without hab complexes and domes respectively)*
TECH: Doctrine: Mobility

Amazingly, I can still add one more feature. (Asterisked features can be added infinitely without breaking 8 ability limit, I think)

[livid imp]

Natalinasmpf,

+50% Psi bonus is the equivient of a +5 Planet rating. Think about it, look at you faction but make the +1 Planet a +6 Planet.....it starts looking like the factions at Networknode.org when you think of it like that.

Nomads
+6 Planet
+2 Effic
+2 morale
-2 Industry
-1 growth

vs.
Cult of Planet
+2 Planet
-1 Econ
-1 Industry

Which would you pick?

Instead....Add Free Tech: Frictionless Surfaces. This should give them cloaking from day one. AFAIK there are no other changes the tech would have, so it shouldn't break the game. Just keep in mind that the tech could be stolen which could cause problems.

Otherwise the changes you made look appropriate to me.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by ShadowKat
I'm afraid that argument doesn't hold a whole lot of water with Meier's games

No clearly this is just a game, which why I said "But if we pretend, we can get past that point " I think one of the things that has made SMAC so enduring, is the fact while it is Sci-Fi, it is very believable. Much like a good movie in this sense. Rarely does a video game inspire the average Joe to post fan fiction the way this game has....why? Because you can realistically see yourself in the story. Every day on Earth people in 3rd world countries fractionalize and warlords spring up much like this story. On the meta-level, this game is closer to reality than Civ is. That is why I am kind of a stickler about the realism of the factions. Sure there aren't any cyborgs in the world, just people with cochlear implants and titanium legs.

[Natalinasmpf]

[/q]Instead....Add Free Tech: Frictionless Surfaces. This should give them cloaking from day one. AFAIK there are no other changes the tech would have, so it shouldn't break the game. Just keep in mind that the tech could be stolen which could cause problems.[/q]

The problem it can be given to allies. *shudder*

The enemy will get hold of it, then what about people with Planetary Datalinks and Roze? Oh my.

They should include the ability to have an ability (pun unintended) given from day one, since they have free facilities like that, too.

Think about it, look at you faction but make the +1 Planet a +6 Planet

But not the benefits of increased lifeform capture rate, reduced impact of ecological damage, etc.

I intend to severely penalise this through the -2 Industry or -3 Industry. And the Cult has half/third the industry problem, less of a housing problem, and is good at maintaining police fanatic control. Bear in mind the PSI bonus is now 33%. And the Cult can pop boom. Yay.

I think I'll toss in a penalty for wealth as well.

+2 morale
+2 effic
+1 Planet
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+33% Psi Bonus
Free ability cloaking device upon discovery of frictionless surfaces
Penalty: Wealth
Tech: Doctrine: Mobility
Hab Complex Problem equivalent of Morgan's
Aversion to Free Market

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
The problem it can be given to allies. *shudder*

The enemy will get hold of it, then what about people with Planetary Datalinks and Roze? Oh my.

Well since this is basically a "house rules" faction, you could agree that the tech is not to be traded. Even if some one gets the tech, they wouldn't get the ability for free. The AI never uses cloaking. There is no easy answer there, i was just tossing out ideas.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
They should include the ability to have an ability (pun unintended) given from day one, since they have free facilities like that, too.

Yes, there should....come on SMAC2!

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
But not the benefits of increased lifeform capture rate, reduced impact of ecological damage, etc.

True, but still an equivent in combat.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
I intend to severely penalise this through the -2 Industry or -3 Industry.

-2 should do it. Anymore, while logical, would be crippling on a game balance level.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Bear in mind the PSI bonus is now 33%.

This seems more moderated.

Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
+2 morale
+2 effic
+1 Planet
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+33% Psi Bonus
Free ability cloaking device upon discovery of frictionless surfaces
Penalty: Wealth
Tech: Doctrine: Mobility
Hab Complex Problem equivalent of Morgan's
Aversion to Free Market

This looks more balanced. Playtest it for yourself, then get others to after you revaluate it. Btw, I think aversion to wealth makes more sense than FM.

[Kaboth]

Originally posted by livid imp
I think one of the things that has made SMAC so enduring, is the fact while it is Sci-Fi, it is very believable.

I'm no expert scientist but when I read all those tech descriptions they are indeed very believable. But maybe thats the point the intended audience isn't supposed to be scientists who say this or that is impossible. I'm still waiting for my organic superlubricant though; there must be some hiding in my dads workshop somewhere

[livid imp]

Great Sci-Fi is more science and less fiction