ACDG5: Demogame, anyone (especially newbies)?

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Mart
We could also mimic some expansion factions, e.g. create pseudo-Data Angels, Drones or Cycon. It would be within available smac limits.

Originally posted by Mart
I would rather keep for AI original personalities.

I misunderstood. Do I take it that you are proposing to mimic some expansion factions, with their personalities and faction characteristics within SMAC limits?

Originally posted by Mart
Only human controlled faction would be generated, but if so we better play flat faction with no balancing, just my oppinion. I would though give AI additional parameters to make them competitive.

As I said before, you are the one that determines balance. The more I think about it, the more I like a flat faction. It gives the demo gamers the greatest opportunity to shape the faction's direction. All SE choices would be available.

Originally posted by Mart
Small map is momentum play style inclined. To have more hybrid or builder style possible it is more difficult to achieve. But I would avoid making the game easy momentum win.

If I understand correctly, mineral and nutrient rows continue to have 10 units in custom size map, but tech rate would be faster.

So the topics for discussion:
(1) Approve map size (30x60) and map parameters (all middle of the road);
(2) Decide on standard, generated or flat faction to be played by the demogamers.

Edit: Deleted topic - misunderstood Mart

[Mart]

Originally posted by Nims
I don't think that it is necessary to know the best strategies in a demo game, as there will be discussion about almost anything anyway. At least as far as I could see from reading through that sample thread.

I agree. Trying something new is fun. So when you pick up a faction not played much before, maybe read some strategies here and there, play a quick SP game yourself and there you should be set to lead that faction.

[Mart]

Originally posted by vyeh
(3) Should the CMN choose the opposing factions, including some SMAX mimics? (obviously, Pirates and the aliens can't be simulated)

I have to write what I had in mind - I can do this what (3) states, but I thought about mimicking only human controlled faction.
So e.g. you decide to replace Gaians - we tweak them, but from Hive to PK original factions remain, etc.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by vyeh
There was a recent thread where the poster had lost Alien Crossfire and found replacing Alien Crossfire to be high.

With relatively few people interested and keeping in mind the dropout rate in any demogame, I think it is best to go for least common denominator rather than majority rule.

I would be LESS interested following an ACDG if it was SMAC than if it was SMAX. You're gonna lose people either way. So you might as well pick the option which you personally find most fun, especially since SMAX is available for everyone to download.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Mart
I have to write what I had in mind - I can do this what (3) states, but I thought about mimicking only human controlled faction.

I misunderstood.

So the topics for discussion:
(1) Approve map size (30x60) and map parameters (all middle of the road);
(2) Decide on standard, generated (including SMAX mimic) or flat faction to be played by the demogamers.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Maniac
especially since SMAX is available for everyone to download.

Not for me. I have a Mac.

Originally posted by Maniac
I would be LESS interested following an ACDG if it was SMAC than if it was SMAX. You're gonna lose people either way. So you might as well pick the option which you personally find most fun,

Let's put the issue of SMAC versus SMAX back on the table.

So the topics for discussion:
(1) Should we play SMAX or SMAC?
(2) Approve map size (30x60) and map parameters (all middle of the road);
(3) Decide on standard, generated (including SMAX mimic) or flat faction to be played by the demogamers.

[Maniac]

Don't you have SMAX?

[vyeh]

Yes, I do. I just meant there are no Mac versions of SMAX available (except at very high prices on eBay and Amazon).

[JoeStalin]

I'm fine with smax or smac. I think the smax factions are a little tougher so if we could include the cycon and drones that might be a good thing.

suggested map size is fine. I like to play huge maps single player butseems like a demo game is pretty slow to develop so i'm fine w/ whatever you guys think best.

Really i'm fine with any faction, I just really can't identify w/ the premise of the gaians and to a lesser extent the believers. I thought it'd be more fun if i could get into character a little bit.

But any faction is fine, including a 'blank' faction. Let's get it going asap!

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Maniac
I would be LESS interested following an ACDG if it was SMAC than if it was SMAX. You're gonna lose people either way. So you might as well pick the option which you personally find most fun, especially since SMAX is available for everyone to download.

Originally posted by JoeStalin
I'm fine with smax or smac. I think the smax factions are a little tougher so if we could include the cycon and drones that might be a good thing.

I've done searches of previous posts to see how people feel about SMAC vs. SMAX

Bodissey chose SMAX in "pbem sign up"
Heraclitus asked for SMAC in demogame proposal
Nims gave advice about Cult and Cyborgs (which are SMAX factions)
timsup2nothin has done a SMAX mod

If we choose SMAX:
Having SMAX is a necessity for the turnplayer. It is useful for those who like to open up the save file and get into the nitty gritty. If you're into role playing or the democracy aspects, you can have a lot of fun on the threads without opening the saves as long as someone post screen shots and writes an accurate description of what is going on.

Having Maniac follow the ACDG is a great plus. I have thought of a game premise which can use veterans like Maniac. (I'll detail that below.)

Originally posted by JoeStalin
suggested map size is fine. I like to play huge maps single player butseems like a demo game is pretty slow to develop so i'm fine w/ whatever you guys think best.

The unique aspect of a demogame is the "democracy" aspect. It is about players interacting. Strategy is formed out of politics. The multitude of posts will make up for the time you would normally spend on a big map moving many units and managing many bases.

Originally posted by JoeStalin
Really i'm fine with any faction, I just really can't identify w/ the premise of the gaians and to a lesser extent the believers. I thought it'd be more fun if i could get into character a little bit.

Getting into character is very important. It makes the demogame much more fun.

Originally posted by Mart
I just have an idea of an option:
...
Or some idea is to play a faction with no parameters at all - plain flat faction that would be shaped entirely by present philosophy players choose.
What comes to my mind is e.g.:
Unity Command
An officer from the ship takes over the command of the mission after Garland dies. Lal has to yield and live as a common citizen of the faction.

Originally posted by JoeStalin
But any faction is fine, including a 'blank' faction.

I like Mart's suggestion. I propose the following premise for ACDGV:

Captain Garland has died. Although Lal tried to take over Captain Garland's legitimacy as head of the mission, the Unity chain of command prevailed.

They were able to load hibernation tubes aboard one of the colony pods.

Knowing that it will take a long time to complete their mission, they've decided that the best way to complete their mission is to use the hibernation tubes.

Junior officers will carry out the day to day activity. The senior officers will remain in hibernation. They can be awaken for general advice; however, their period of wakefulness must be rationed so their valuable experience is available in the future.

Since they are pragmatic (in comparison to ideologues like Lal), all social engineering choices are available.

To keep Unity Command from getting into a rut (and perhaps to keep themselves from being overthrown while they sleep), they have directed that the junior officer running the faction be rotated on a regular basis, and that he must consult his fellow junior leaders on important decisions and follow the majority.

Originally posted by JoeStalin
Let's get it going asap!

We will.

Topics for Discussion:
(1) SMAC or SMAX
(2) Map size and map parameters
(3) Standard faction, generated faction or flat faction

I'd also like to know who is interested in
(1) being a turnplayer
(2) being faction leader

I'm especially interested in giving newbies a chance for both of these roles early on. It is easier to learn these roles (and to tutor someone) when there are fewer units, bases, build choices, SE choices, contacts with other factions, etc.

[Heraclitus]

I see you did your homework, well I'm for SMAC like you've noticed. I would prefer a standard or generated faction.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
I see you did your homework, well I'm for SMAC like you've noticed. I would prefer a standard or generated faction.

Does that mean you don't have SMAX?

What about a flat (i.e. "blank") faction?

[Maniac]

How about each person getting their own base to govern, or group of people getting their own province? Sounds more fun than being forcefully put into hibernation.

[timsup2nothin]

Okay....

I have to do some sort of install to bypass my mod, and I'm fine with SMAC or SMAX. The arguments for SMAC make more sense to me, so it gets my vote.

Map Size is fine either way. I haven't really seen much of a preference put up by anyone so I get the impression we just need someone to step up to the plate and vote. I vote 30x60 with average parameters.

I like the idea of the 'flat faction' in place of the PKs so my vote is 'flat'. Should there be more votes for choosing a 'standard' faction that's fine. In that case I would like to exclude the Believers out of personal distaste and the University out of a personal theory that they are too familiar/easy to play.

Although I still haven't investigated what they actually are I think I'd be interested in being a turnplayer or faction leader. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[Mart]

A review from memory which of the original 7 factions were played in previous ACDGs:

ACDG1 - Pk, iirc
ACDG2 - Hive, University
ACDG3 - Gaians, Morgan, Spartans
ACDG4 - Pk ?

So only Believers were not played.