ACDG5: Demogame, anyone (especially newbies)?

[vyeh]

This is the game organization thread for Alpha Centauri Democracy Game 5 ("ACDG5"). This thread is for all matters relating to the organization of the game.

Original message:

I received a PM from someone who would like to join "my" demogame.

I see two possibilities

(1) I could resume the Darsnan scenario Into the Hornets nest, which I had suspended a year ago, or

(2) if there is more general interest, we could do a relaxed demogame for anyone interested:

(a) beg Mart to recycle one of his maps and give us some sort of accelerated start (multiple colony pods and multiple explorers);
(b) standard rules except directed research;
(c) original SMAC 7 factions.

I would like to know if there are people interested. I wouldn't have any expectations on skill level.

Edit: Added reference to the ACDG5 index at the beginning of the message.

[Heraclitus]

Me.

[Nims]

Yep, interested.

[Bodissey]

I'd also be willing to give it a try.

[vyeh]

Re: Demogame, anyone (especially newbies)?

Originally posted by vyeh
(2) if there is more general interest, we could do a relaxed demogame for anyone interested:

(a) beg Mart to recycle one of his maps and give us some sort of accelerated start (multiple colony pods and multiple explorers);
(b) standard rules except directed research;
(c) original SMAC 7 factions.

I'm inclined to go with the above possibility. Having gone through the process of trying to get an agreement for a demogame through a process of polls, which failed after a great deal of posts, I'd like to follow this procedure:

(1) Introductions - Please post
(a) anything you'd like to say about yourself,
(b) what you would like to get out of a demogame, and
(c) any musts or must nots (e.g. you can't stand playing Morgan).

(2) Agreement on setup, rules, faction

(3) We ask Mart to set-up a game (I'd like it to be low maintenance for him, so I would suggest he re-use a set-up that none of you have seen)

I'll start the ball rolling.
(a) I joined AC Demogame III at the end with the Data Angels. It was a multiplayer game. I was the turnplayer when the game ended. After the game ended, the private fora were opened up to everybody and I saw how the other teams approached the game.

I tried to get an AC Demogame IV going, but it fell apart. I eventually got Darsnan to create a single player scenario "The Sword of the Righteous" and I played it with Flubber, Mart and Mead. After it finished, I started another Darsnan scenario, but I suspended it when no one else was interested.

I like careful strategic analysis. I enjoyed carefully planning the tech strategy and movement for The Sword of the Righteous.

(b) I like reading and writing early game strategic choices.

(c) I have only one must: mutual respect. Those with little experience or who haven't read every thread in this forum should never be put down (i.e. if someone suggest subverting a wild mindworm with a probe team, calling him an idiot is out of bounds).

I have only one must not: the experience can't be boring. Besides starting with multiple colony pods and multiple scouts, I want to avoid so much formality that the pace is too slow. For example, while I disapprove in general of restarting from a turn save, if a novice turn player hits the wrong key and attacks a mindworm with a colony pod, then we restart the turn.

[Kataphraktoi]

Fortunately you cannot attack mindworms with colony pods.

The problem always comes down to commitment. Veteran players are unlikely to commit without other veterans commiting and newbies are newbies because they stay on the fringe or dont heavily participate.

[timsup2nothin]

OK...I'm apparently a new guy since I don't know what 'demo game' means. I'll do a search for threads and find out, but I'm probably interested.

a) anything you'd like to say about yourself,
I'm retired. I play games a lot. I frequently mention SMAC/X as m favorite game of all time. I play a heavily modded version that I did myself, but have been considering going to the original just to see if I can still win.

(b) what you would like to get out of a demogame,

A good time.

(c) any musts or must nots (e.g. you can't stand playing Morgan).

Same as Vyeh. If you want to call me (or anyone else) an idiot, consider whether you would be willing to do it face to face. I'm retired, but not old, and retired from a very violent profession, so I usually get a certain amount of respect face to face.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
Fortunately you cannot attack mindworms with colony pods.

I know mindworms can attack non-combat units. What happens when a non-combat unit attempts to move into the square of a mindworm? Does the game just remain the same with the non-combat unit continuing to blink? (For some reason, I've never tried to attack a mindworm with a non-combat unit ...)

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
The problem always comes down to commitment. Veteran players are unlikely to commit without other veterans commiting and newbies are newbies because they stay on the fringe or dont heavily participate.

Veterans had a chance to continue the demogames a couple of years ago. I think demogames had run their course for veterans. So while I might envision veterans dropping in on the demo game from time to time and offering suggestions, I don't think there is a veteran player who would be interested even if another veteran player was interested.

The beauty of a demogame (unlike a multiplayer game) is that if a couple of newbies drop out, the game can still continue. I did a little search of the people responding. One respondent got involved in a newbie MP game which only went two turns before it petered out.

I think there may be a niche for newcomers that are tired of playing against the AI, but aren't comfortable with getting into MP.

At this point, I think the minimum commitment I need is:

(1) Mart to set-up (and I plan to make the specifications as CMN friendly as I can -- no enhanced AI, special units; I think a randomly generated map is fine as long as the factions are given extra CP's and scouts)

(2) myself for the knowledge of how to run a demogame and to fill in as needed

(3) at least one other player (it doesn't have to be the same one the whole game).

[vyeh]

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
OK...I'm apparently a new guy since I don't know what 'demo game' means. I'll do a search for threads and find out, but I'm probably interested.

The search function does not work in the archives, where the past AC Democracy Games reside.

In a demo game, two or more players collaborate in playing a single faction.

If you want to quickly browse through a sample demogame,

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158400

[Heraclitus]

I'm a big time fan of diplo gaming, love SMAC and have in the past considered joining Civ4 demo games.

Question: Will all the factions be human controled or do we have far too few players to do that?

[Kataphraktoi]

Veterans had a chance to continue the demogames a couple of years ago. I think demogames had run their course for veterans. So while I might envision veterans dropping in on the demo game from time to time and offering suggestions, I don't think there is a veteran player who would be interested even if another veteran player was interested.

Yes i recall that, i think if people really wanted to play it wouldnt have bogged down in polls. There was civ4 out, the future was uncertain, and nothing got done. If you can make this happen, major kudos Better make it fast and push it through before initial enthusiasm dampens, though. The civ4 DG was horrible for taking so long to start.


I always liked civ2DGs better myself, with everyone controlling one faction and certain posts and responsibilites. And voting to decide who gets what position. Prime minister, army commander, head diplomat, etc

[Nims]

What happens when a non-combat unit attempts to move into the square of a mindworm?

You simply can't move into it. Probes also get a message like "Probe teams can't affect native lifeforms".

I did a little search of the people responding. One respondent got involved in a newbie MP game which only went two turns before it petered out.

Guess that was me. That game went down pretty fast As you said, if only one guy drops out in MP, everything comes to a stall.

[Verrucosus]

After the recent polycast, this is an excellent time to try this, vyeh. I'm too busy at work at the moment to join, but I will certainly watch. Good luck!

Verrucosus

P.S.: If a democracy game should turn out too much work to organize with a limited number of participants, please consider trying a succession game instead (still lots of room for discussion, but no complex decision making - the Civ2 forum had a very enjoyable one a few months ago). Also using classic SMAC rather than SMAX would probably increase potential participation.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Question: Will all the factions be human controled or do we have far too few players to do that?

My proposal is for one human controlled faction that we control jointly. There are way to few players for even two factions. The experience of ACDGIII is that there are dropouts.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
Better make it fast and push it through before initial enthusiasm dampens, though. The civ4 DG was horrible for taking so long to start.

Good advice. I kind of designed the intros (especially parts b and c) so we could quickly figure out what players wanted from the demo game and deal-breakers.

The next step is to put together a proposal for faction, rules & set-up and beg Mart for a set-up

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
I always liked civ2DGs better myself, with everyone controlling one faction and certain posts and responsibilites. And voting to decide who gets what position. Prime minister, army commander, head diplomat, etc

That is the way it will work, with the caveat that every functional position (military, tech, diplomat) should eventually be available to any player who wants it.