Ideal Social Engineering Settings

[ManOWar2]

Originally posted by Ka Plewy


I'm not Republican, nor funadmentalist christian, but you were quick to jump to that conclusion, because of what I had written.
I think that you blend in well with the typical anti-American, European frame of mind. IF someone makes a mistake that you are European, it's because your English isn't your native tongue, and your ideals match those of Europe.
Still, you have yet to provide me with the primary sources about the attempted coup against Roosevelt.

Regards,
Ka Plewy

ha the "failed coup"

Just make an internet research about it.

I have no official document to provide you, since I saw it in a video documentory.

But I know the "failed coup" just came out in american media, since the general who stated loyal to roosevelt, just make a public declaration to inform the public.

( I know goodyear president was involved, lol)


they wanted to get him on their personnal Island somewhere, to make him changing his politics.


You can trust me it's true.

I was just so "Oh my god" when I saw such thing...

When I saw the americans general, that I dont remember his name, speaking to the media the name of the company president who were plotting a coup d'État...

Isnt it crazy ?

If that coup worked, it was the door for facism in america.


(as american, you should know this things that happenned in your country... dont ask yourself why your governement dont write that in official history book.)

I was talking with a NAVY SEALS from america on a forum, he told me more things about this.

It was in the 1930's.

(I'll look my self too, this is intriguing me as I'm talking about it)

[ManOWar2]

Here it is :

Samuel Huntington in citation...


Important coups in the 20th century
1923: The Beer Hall Putsch, a failed coup attempt by Adolf Hitler in Germany
1926: Coup of Jozef Pilsudski in Poland
1932: The May 15th Incident, a military coup in Japan


Here :

1933: Failed coup against Franklin Delano Roosevelt in United States (see Smedley Butler)

Complete List :

http://www.answers.com/topic/coup-d-tat

(there si so many site on it that I took the first one I saw a bit serious)


If you want to know more about who did the "plotting" and why they did it, it may ask more strong research, your help is welcome, :P

Read this to know about the generals :

Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881—June 21, 1940), nicknamed "Old Gimlet Eye," was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps and at the time of his death the most decorated marine in U.S. history. Butler was twice the recipient of the Medal of Honor, one of only 19 to be so honored; he is noted for his outspoken left-wing views and his book War is a Racket, one of the first works describing the military-industrial complex. An immensely popular figure in the United States at the time, Butler led the Bonus Army and came forward to the U.S. Congress in 1933 to reveal a plot to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Butler was born in West Chester, Pennsylvania. He attended Haverford College and was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the U.S. Marine Corps in 1898. He fought in the Philippine-American War later that year. In 1900 he recieved a brevet promotion to Captain for his action during the Boxer Rebellion (which brevet promotion qualified him to receive the Marine Corps Brevet Medal in 1921). Then in 1903, he fought to protect the U.S. Consulate in Honduras from rebels.

Butler was married on June 30, 1905. From 1909 to 1912, he served in Nicaragua. Then in April of 1914, Bulter earned his first Medal of Honor for the capture of Vera Cruz, Mexico. On November 17, 1915, he earned his second Medal of Honor for the capture of Fort Riviere, Haiti. He received a Distinguished Service Medal in 1919.

In 1924-1925, Butler was loaned to the city of Philadelphia to serve as a police commissioner. His duty was to enforce Prohibition, a monumentally difficult task. Unlike many at the time, Butler insisted on enforcing the law against all violators, rich and poor, and this earned him both enmity and respect.

In 1927, Butler served a tour in China, and returned to the United States in 1929 as a Major General. On October 1, 1931, Butler retired from the Marines.

Butler was known for his outspoken views against war profiteering and nascent Fascism in the United States. His book War is a Racket holds a highly critical view of the profit motive behind warfare. Between 1935 and 1937, Butler served as a spokesman for the League Against War and Fascism, a leftist organization.


To see his picture :

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Smedley+Butler&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1

[Commy]

ManofWar2, I never said you were European...

I didn't say anybody was European...

And not all Europeans are arrogant...

Just like not all Americans are ignorant...

I'm not pointing any fingers, just think of it more as a public notice if you feel offended...

[Commy]

So anyway, I was wondering, what political parties are there, if any, in say, England and Canada....because I here most are comparative to our American democrats on certain issues...

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Commy
So anyway, I was wondering, what political parties are there, if any, in say, England and Canada....because I here most are comparative to our American democrats on certain issues...

What follows is a hopelessly incomplete list of parties from the Netherlands because, quite frankly, I can't be bothered with remembering them all.

SP - Socialist Party, left-wing "worker party"
GroenLinks - Green Left, left-wing idealistic party
PvdA - Party of (the) Labour, left-wing party
D'66 - Democrats 66, centrum-right party
CDA - Christian Democratic [Appel], Christian centrum-right party
VVD - People'sparty for Freedom and Democracy, right-wing liberal party
LPF - List Pim Fortuyn, populist right-wing party
SGP - Political Reformed Party, bible-thumping Protestant party
CU - Christian Union, bible-thumping Catholic party

Currently, the coalition of CDA, VVD and D'66 is the majority in charge, while PvdA is the biggest opposition party (bigger than VVD, certainly bigger than D'66, possibly bigger than CDA).

So, how many of them compare to the US Democrats & Republicans? One - VVD. If you want to be generous, you could also call LPF and possibly SGP & CU to be "kind of Republican".

[ManOWar2]

Originally posted by Commy
ManofWar2, I never said you were European...

I didn't say anybody was European...

And not all Europeans are arrogant...

Just like not all Americans are ignorant...

I'm not pointing any fingers, just think of it more as a public notice if you feel offended...

OK, I understand.

You are right.

hehehe...



(I may be wrong with the actual number of deputy, but this mostly like this)

Canadian political party :


Liberal Party - up to 120 deputy

centrist/right party on economy, left-wing social values, most popular party in Ontario. Québéc/french federalist people very present in the party.

Conservative party : up to 80 deputy
Unification of the Conservative/progressive party and the Canadian alliance - Right wing oriented politics, favorable to Republicans in USA. Strong in Alberta, British Colombia, part of Saskatchewan


Neo-Democrat Party - 29 deputy
LeftWing party, contribution to our actual canadian social system. They were in the governement for 2 times in 1960's as a coalition members with the Liberal Party. They strong in some party of Ontario, saskatchewan, manitoba and all the little province of the east : New-Brunswick, Prince Edward Isle, Newfoundland (I dont like newfounland), Nova-scotia.

Bloc Québécois : 2005 : 54 deputy
Independantist party, created in 1994 by a schism with the old progressive/conservative party. The Bloc Québécois was the official canadian opposition party in 1994-1998.
Actually, they can overthrown the minoritary governement of the Liberal Party if they choose to vote with the Conservative party.
This party is very popular in Québec only and they have deputy representation only in Québec. Theorically they could control canada if all other party receive like 60 deputy and the Bloc Québécois can have a maximum of 75 deputy in Québec.

(Notice I always vote Bloc Québécois on federal elections)


Green Party : No need to explain , identical to european green party. They have 8% of the vote. Think they have 1 deputy at the parlement. They strong in British Columbia.


PS : all the canadian territories (Yukon, Nunavut, North-West Territory, elected Liberal deputy.)


Minor canadian political party with no real influence :

Canadian alliance heritage : Extremist right-wing party. Alberta...

Marxist Leninist Party...

Marijuana party.




Other "idiot" party... like the "citrus party" lol

[Commy]

Wow...

I think I like the simple Democrat vs. Republican...

[ManOWar2]

Originally posted by Commy
Wow...

I think I like the simple Democrat vs. Republican...

USA system is majoritay, presidential,
most of europe system (except england) are proportional or mix, and presidential.

proportionnal system mean : 5% of people voted for green party, example, then 5% of the available seats at the parliement will go to green party, that explain why. Even if the proportionnal is never "100" (you can have 40% of the chambers seat at the majoritary and the other for proportionnal) it make better representation.


Canada is majoritary wich normally is favorable for bipartism, like in usa, but our country is specific because lot of reason. hehe. (french and english langage, liberal/green and socialism mind vs conservative ****** and ultra-capitalism , eastern and western value, pro americans/ pro-europeans/ status quo, etc, our geographic position wich make a very long frontier with United States make the thing special )


But what's important is that the more party are elected, the more the democracy is representative of the population.


But anyway, democracy still a corrupted system

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Commy
Wow...

I think I like the simple Democrat vs. Republican...

Hmm. I prefer my "complicated" multi-party system - at least then I have a real choice and the composition of parlement actually reflects society (or at least, those parts of it that vote).
From my viewpoint Democrat VS Republican is little more than "pretty right-wing VS really right-wing" and since I'm basically a socialist, that's not a very fun choice for me at all.

[Alinestra Covelia]

My ideal social engineering selections

This assumes you are playing "SMAC" rules (Specially Modified Alinestra Covelia).

1. Politics column would have a new government type: Shameless Nepotism! Everybody tries to get their "nephews" and "nieces" into positions of power and thus ensure that FAMILY VALUES are observed throughout the realm.

2. Economics will be Planned, and the unit of trade will be changed away from the "energy credit" which is vague and abstract and which the common worker cannot identify with. Instead, new currency composing of "ORAL SEX CREDITS" will be enforced, thus introducing a reward system that will be instantly recognizable and universally accepted. (A secondary currency of alcohol will be used where oral sex is unavailable.) This will also help achieve the Marxist goal of eliminating the middle-man inefficiencies that lead to stock market speculation and uncertainties. Oral sex cannot be called or put, and no future markets exist. It is an immediate consumer oriented market with very limited perishability. (Roughly 12 seconds IIRC.)

3. The values system of Power/Knowledge/Wealth is outdated. The military industrial complex will be immediately scrapped and replaced with a white flag, which is much cheaper and leads to generally less bloodshed. Knowledge will be branded obsolete except where it has carnival applications (fnarr fnarr!) and wealth will only represent accumulations of alcohol.

4. A Future society of "You-Die-Hedonia" will be implemented, wherein the final ultimate goal of each individual is to die while surrounded by as many earthly pleasures as possible. Orgies of hedonism and depravity will become the norm, as society seeks further methods of indulging the senses (or dulling them with alcohol when the withdrawals are too severe). Once human immortality is achieved, people will actually start consciously trying to kill themselves in pursuit of pleasure rather than just hedging their bets.

[Sikander]

Re: My ideal social engineering selections

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia

2. Economics will be Planned, and the unit of trade will be changed away from the "energy credit" which is vague and abstract and which the common worker cannot identify with. Instead, new currency composing of "ORAL SEX CREDITS" will be enforced, thus introducing a reward system that will be instantly recognizable and universally accepted. (A secondary currency of alcohol will be used where oral sex is unavailable.) This will also help achieve the Marxist goal of eliminating the middle-man inefficiencies that lead to stock market speculation and uncertainties. Oral sex cannot be called or put, and no future markets exist. It is an immediate consumer oriented market with very limited perishability. (Roughly 12 seconds IIRC.)

I disagree about the oral sex credits, I think you will find that in such a circumstance it will act like all other currencies, and indeed it does already.

Oral sex is already called and put (out) and in the case of your humble correspondent often sold short.

There may not yet be a futures market for oral sex credits, but one might imagine that one would develop as soon as the system was in place and advanced knowledge of the fleet's arrival was in hand. A small portion of the proceeds would be devoted to a fund to build a monument to "The Unblown Sailor" in Sea's Booty.

We are all familiar with Gresham's law, which states that bad money will drive out good. How could this not be even more true with oral sex? People will hold the debts of true artists dear while letting the services of toothy batterers with no empathy go for a song. As the value of the credits continually goes down (ahem) the market will eventually collapse in a frenzy of genital endangering debauchery as people try to spend their credits while there is still some chance that anyone will honor them. Which is actually perfect for your future society choice, "You-Die-Hedonia".

[ManOWar2]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis

Hmm. I prefer my "complicated" multi-party system - at least then I have a real choice and the composition of parlement actually reflects society (or at least, those parts of it that vote).
From my viewpoint Democrat VS Republican is little more than "pretty right-wing VS really right-wing" and since I'm basically a socialist, that's not a very fun choice for me at all.

Your viewpoint is correct in my opinion

[CEO Aaron]

It seems to me that fracturing your opposition party (all political dynamics can be reduced to a 'preservation' and 'change' party) doesn't really do anything but consolidate the deathgrip the majority has on political control. In other words, the various fractured interests that make up the Democratic Party in the US wouldn't be any more effective if there were divided into smaller subparties, especially as long as representation is apportioned according to regional populations. Even in countries with a multiparty system, the legislature aligns itself into two factions, the controlling coalition and the opposition. America just pre-packages them during the marketing phase (the election).

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
It seems to me that fracturing your opposition party (all political dynamics can be reduced to a 'preservation' and 'change' party) doesn't really do anything but consolidate the deathgrip the majority has on political control.

You fail to take into account that the majority is just as fractured and that their "deathgrip" is very fragile indeed. The opposition parties are all allowed to disagree with the majority and each other, but if the ruling parties get an internal conflict their cabinet can (and often will) fall leading to new elections. And, because the majority screwed up, their parties are likely to lose numerous very valuable seats.

And while, perhaps, I can't argue about "preservation", "change" parties come in all kinds of flavours. Our SP, for example, wants a more socialist society while the VVD wants to move towards more Free Market forces.
Both desire change, of course, but you wouldn't find them forming a coalition any time soon.

In other words, the various fractured interests that make up the Democratic Party in the US wouldn't be any more effective if there were divided into smaller subparties, especially as long as representation is apportioned according to regional populations.

Ah, then your Republican party is one united front with no kind of dissent within the ranks at all.
How... scary, actually.

Even in countries with a multiparty system, the legislature aligns itself into two factions, the controlling coalition and the opposition. America just pre-packages them during the marketing phase (the election).

Ah, to see the world in black and white. How simple everything would seem.
Fortunately, the opposition disagrees with itself a lot and the ruling parties have to very politely point out that perhaps one of their partners may want to do things differently. It may be a lot of bickering and arguing, but at least it's better than everyone saying "Yes, Prime Minister".

[Flubber]

Does anyone want to hear about my latest One-city-challenge attempt or is that considered too far off topic??