Ideal Social Engineering Settings

[binTravkin]

And Latvia has never seen any 'influence' from US side as well.

This is not completely true as US is influencing all the world and Latvia as well.
But we're quite happy that the influence is not that of IRAQ..

In answer to both Commys posts I can say:

1.Im not claiming to be very clever, but to say Moon has clouds is un-intelligent at least, so you shouldn't be the person saying that Im overestimating my knowledge.

2.Europe is not "dis"ed because it does not try to spend its influence more and does not make up fake Casus Belli against other countries.

Did you find any WMD in IRAQ - nope and I bet all of your covert agencies were aware of that.

US is a badboy, because with its actions it hurts many people's feelings. This is the reason it is hated.
It has too little of a morale and ethics and too more of a pure greed and will to power.

3.In reality it is no way how could US stop to participate in international conflicts. It has been going for it and building up for it ever since 1917 when the politics of isolation where dismissed by US government.
And in fact some international conflicts has happened or are still happening only because US wants so.

Its not simple but your govenment feeds it to you in a simple way and you blindly believe in it (meaning Commy here).

[Sikander]

Originally posted by binTravkin

1.Soviets were extraordinarily brutal to anyone, not only Nazis.

I agree, but your point is at best a semi-sequiter to my own. It's fine to make that point but quoting me simply confuses the issue.

Originally posted by binTravkin
2.The talk was bout who made more effort not moral, it's clear that a government of a really powerful nation is very rarely taking moral and ethics in count - they just pretend to be doing so and it's called propaganda.
In WW2 numbers decided the most and if you count them, I think the picture is clear..

You are not allowed in good faith to determine "the issue" in a rambling multipage thread which has already gone way, way off topic more than once. My point is in relation simply to the bit I quoted. We have already argued about the relative contributions of the various sides in WW2 but you were too emotional and incapable of reading english well enough for the conversation to really benefit me. (Not that my russian is nearly as good as your english, which is pretty good.) I wasn't learning anything except for what I could infer about the Latvian educational system. Those who are interested in our exchange can read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

[binTravkin]

You are not allowed in good faith to determine "the issue" in a rambling multipage thread which has already gone way, way off topic more than once. My point is in relation simply to the bit I quoted. We have already argued about the relative contributions of the various sides in WW2 but you were too emotional and incapable of reading english well enough for the conversation to really benefit me. (Not that my russian is nearly as good as your english, which is pretty good.) I wasn't learning anything except for what I could infer about the Latvian educational system. Those who are interested in our exchange can read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

1.I understand that arguing over Internet is no use, because many persons would just ignore if they dont want to read something. Im also quite sure now that most people start arguing only to express their agresiveness and "knowledge" (not meaning you), not to show a different viewpoint..

It's very sad.

2.About my emotionality - you made a few sentences which were very emotional as well and those enraged me.
Many americans believe they made great effort in WW2, but for me it was like you saw someone will fall and wanted to take your share of it at the same time preventing USSR claiming all the Europe..
Germany was defeated in 3 battles - Moscow, Stalingrad, Kursk (in which it lost 6months of military production - data by UK scientists, documental movie "Battleground").
If it won any of them, US would help in its defeat, otherwise it was only a question of time for German capitulation and a question of strategy to take some territory in Europe and secure US from being in range of USSR..

[GeoModder]

I was talking about direct influence, BinTravkin. For in essence everyone influences everyone by his/her mere existence.

[binTravkin]

Yeah, like you influence my mind now and it's trying to make up something to answer you..unsucessfully..

[livid imp]

Here is my main problem with large government conspiracy theory: Large Government.

When it comes to getting the mail or processing our taxes, everyone swears up and down that the US is totally incompetent, inefficient, and unimaginative. Yet if we are talking about the very same government faking landings on the moon, suddenly they are sophisticated super sleuths, capable not only of tricking thousands of non-fringe scientists and engineers, but also keep every single person involved totally silent about it, even on their dead beds.

If the US government was this good at staging historical events, why didn't they stage the finding of "weapons of mass destruction" to the world? By comparison, that would have been a cake walk to fake and would have did a lot more for foreign reputation.

Do I believe that governments will lie to the public? Absolutely.

Will they go out of their way to omit or cover up evidence? Yup.

Has the US government put satellite tracking devices in our dental fillings? Some how, I just don't see it happening.

[binTravkin]

Some how, I just don't see it happening.

Your eyes are blinded!
(actually I as well have found no reason to believe in it)

But about efficency-inefficeny thing:
You know, there is such things as focus.
If you focus very much work and very much money (and I mean VERY MUCH) on something, I think you will succeed.

And actually they are not so sophisticated - at least they didn't trick me and many other individuals outside US..

You can look back to your (was it your?) example of Japan - noone knew Japan had jets until some time ago they discovered all those plans and stuff..
It's 50 yrs and noone or almost noone was even suspicious about that..

[GeoModder]

Didn't they had them from the Germans?

[livid imp]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Didn't they had them from the Germans?

Yea, jets were no secret. We even capturered a german sub bound for Japan with jet engine parts on board.

[binTravkin]

Yea, jets were no secret. We even capturered a german sub bound for Japan with jet engine parts on board.

Hehe, you naughty amercians, how dared you!

But about secrets - I think there's still some things unclear about WW2 after more than 50 yrs.
And it might be because someone tried to hide them..

[GeoModder]

I would be surprised if the larger population ever learns the real interesting history. That is, if they're even interested.

[Ka Plewy]

Originally posted by binTravkin

But about secrets - I think there's still some things unclear about WW2 after more than 50 yrs.
And it might be because someone tried to hide them..

Indeed. Soviet tanks wouldn't have stood up well on the German front, were it not for the good ol' US made trucks we gave the USSR, bringing in all the materiel needed to prosecute the war. Oh, and we supplied some of that materiel, as well.

So, let's all remember we can learn from history, and everyone, and I do mean everyone has their own side.
B5 Reference: "The Vorlon said understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."
If you and another are on opposite sides, then it is likely that Truth lies in the middle.

Warm Regards,
Ka Plewy

Edit:moved apostrophe.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Ka Plewy
If you and another are on opposite sides, then it is likely that Truth lies in the middle.

Or someone has pulled a big leg on both sides...

[Commy]

Alright everybody, first off, the clouds that I was talking about, I was referring to the ones on earth.

No offense, binTravikin, but I didn't think I would have to indicate that I wasn't talking about clouds on the moon, I assumed that everybody would get that, but apparently not...

The clouds on earth do reflect a lot of light. Whether it is enough to completely block out all stars, I don't know, but it certainly enough to dim them a little...

[binTravkin]

The clouds on earth do reflect a lot of light. Whether it is enough to completely block out all stars, I don't know, but it certainly enough to dim them a little...

Well the talk was going on about the stars on Moon, so when you mentioned clouds I assumed you think there are some on Moon. If you read more carefully there was not a single sentence about stars on Earth, except that they can be photographed on Earth (so why there are no stars on Moon landscape photos?).