Interview with Sid - Hints on possible MMO, new games and........Civ5?

[Dale]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


C3C - "We have your money. You are now screwed."
Civ4 - "We learned our lesson and deliver a finished, polished game"
Warlords - "Sorry we ran out of money and have to milk you again for little improvement."
BtS - moving toward "We have your money. You are now screwed." with increasing speed.

Regression, regression, regression. Not in game development, but in QA attitude, which is Spikeys point in case you didn't get it.

How can spikeys point be about QA when he says it's unfinished? Is that not a DEVELOPMENT issue? You really need to think mate before you speak the fool.

[Harovan]

So far you seemed to be reasonable, unlike Solver with his skewed "There hasn't been finished software for ten years, hence BtS is finished" logic. But to be honest, I'm not going to waste my time with your "LA LA LA ... you're wrong ... LA LA LA ... stop being a fool ... LA LA LA" mind games anymore either.

We don't need to discuss what might be DrSpike's point or not. He can speak for himself.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
So far you seemed to be reasonable, unlike Solver with his skewed "There hasn't been finished software for ten years, hence BtS is finished" logic.

Thankyou. But I do have a not too dis-similar view of software to Solver, just my view is not so negative. I believe some companies do still finish software (Paradox to name one).

[Solver]

SR, what are you saying now? That you have bad feelings about the next BtS patch because it's taking a long time to be produced? It's not sensible. When they're taking their time, people expect them to cancel the patch or mess it up. When they release a patch quickly, people complain that it should have spent more time in development...

[Harovan]

I have a bad feeling because I begin to believe that we will be "conquested" again. Which means, a patch is being worked on (as was stated) for many months, but never released, because the company focused all resources on Civ4. The similarities with the current situation are just too obvious. That's why I don't want to hear about Civ5 (or Rev for that matter) before Civ4 is truly finished (including the last patch).

Sure we have Alexman's word that this won't happen, and if I trust anyone over there, it's him. But I doubt he has enough say to guarantee it.

Yea I know, I'm pretty bitter, but it's not like I never have seen it happen...

EDIT: Disclaimer - I don't say BtS is as broken as C3C was. Not by a long shot.

[Solver]

Well, I'd say it's your choice to be pessimistic. Yeah, if the guys at 2K decide to cancel the patch for some reason, there probably won' be much that Alex can do about it. But you indeed should at least trust him to have a good desire to finish the patch and do it well.

You've got to admit that patches being cancelled after spending some time in development is rare enough. Exception, not the rule.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Krill
C3C is about as fun as BtS to me tbh. Atleast C3C doesn't have broken espionage.

You must have missed the explanation from Dale earlier. You see, espionage is in the game and is therefore finished. Since it is finished it must not be broken. Ergo, you have slighted Civ.

Or something incoherent like that anyway.

[LordShiva]

BtS? Sounds more like BS to me

[Dale]

Originally posted by DrSpike


You must have missed the explanation from Dale earlier. You see, espionage is in the game and is therefore finished. Since it is finished it must not be broken. Ergo, you have slighted Civ.

Or something incoherent like that anyway.

Nice theory...... EXCEPT:

Broken != Unfinished.

For those who don't know code:

Broken does not equal unfinished.

Broken == busted == buggy

Therefore your comment is rubbish and spiteful and a complete waste.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Dale


How can spikeys point be about QA when he says it's unfinished? Is that not a DEVELOPMENT issue? You really need to think mate before you speak the fool.

As with the 'regression' issue, you are hiding behind semantics. You need to do this because your underlying premise is so clearly flawed.

FACT: 6 months after release there are severe issues unless you use a fan mod, and even then there are further issues that have been acknowledged need fixing.

FACT: The powers that be have an incentive to focus on new games to get new money and not use scarce resource to address these issues.

FACT: Concern from long time fans of the series like Ralph and myself that the issues may never be addressed is entirely rational and based on past experience.

As for Solver's argument, I find it facile and naive. Yes, we expect software to be released with issues. This is entirely irrelevant. Those posting concerns are not doing so in the first week of release, they are doing so 6 months later, when it's clear attention is firmly focused on other games, and that patch support over those 6 months has been decidedly lacking.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dale


For the benefit of yourself who proves himself, once again mind you, to be lacking in knowledge.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regression

What do you not get?

re·gres·sion /rɪˈgrɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-gresh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act of going back to a previous place or state; return or reversion.

STATE A: C3C - buggy and unfinished
STATE B: Civ4 - good and finished
STATE C: Warlords - let's forget about it
STATE A: BtS - buggy and unfinished

Regression. By definition.

[Dale]

Originally posted by DrSpike


As with the 'regression' issue, you are hiding behind semantics. You need to do this because your underlying premise is so clearly flawed.

No it's not flawed. You first said that the game was unfinished, which is a development issue. It has nothing whatsoever to do with QA. QA is there to ensure WHATS THERE works. Therefore your argument is flawed because you are attaching an issue to a department which has nothing to do with it.

By your way of thinking I could say that it's the mail rooms fault that the boardroom table was a bow in it.

How does that make sense?

FACT: 6 months after release there are severe issues unless you use a fan mod, and even then there are further issues that have been acknowledged need fixing.

There have been four patchs in 6 months. How is this not a fair response by Firaxis? Would you like a patch every week? An untested hurried patch? Or would you blame them for rushing as well?

FACT: The powers that be have an incentive to focus on new games to get new money and not use scarce resource to address these issues.

That's business. Firaxis is there to make money. Full stop. I would do the same thing as a company owner. Sell product the best method possible.

Hey, if it's such a problem for you then blame the Americans who came up with capitalism.

FACT: Concern from long time fans of the series like Ralph and myself that the issues may never be addressed is entirely rational and based on past experience.

This is correct, and you could slot me into that concerned long time fan too.

However, it is NOT rational to use flawed arguments to express your position. If you are going to argue something, at least get it right.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Asher


What do you not get?

re·gres·sion /rɪˈgrɛʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-gresh-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act of going back to a previous place or state; return or reversion.

STATE A: C3C - buggy and unfinished
STATE B: Civ4 - good and finished
STATE C: Warlords - let's forget about it
STATE A: BtS - buggy and unfinished

Regression. By definition.

What do you not get, each version ADD new content, moves the series forward.

That is not a move backwards. Thus it is not regression. Are you really that naive?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dale


What do you not get, each version ADD new content, moves the series forward.

That is not a move backwards. Thus it is not regression. Are you really that naive?

He is very clearly referring to the state of the game and not the feature count...

[Dale]

Originally posted by Asher


He is very clearly referring to the state of the game and not the feature count...

And what is the state of BtS? Complete. Buggy as hell, but finished. All concepts as defined are there. All advertised features are there. We're told that BtS design is realised. Thus, complete.

PLUS, if you read through the definitions you get a sense of the trend of the term "regression" to mean 'previous version', a 'less developed instance'. Which, btw in case you can't pick it up, BtS is not.

At no point does any of the definitions of regression imply a newer version is a lesser state of completeness.

Using one single definition out of 50 to suit your needs, such as you always do, not only shows a lack of research, but also a lower form of discussion.

Move along.