Interview with Sid - Hints on possible MMO, new games and........Civ5?

[Dale]

Sir Ralph,

I commend you on your reasoning. As I've already stated, I agree with 99% of your statements.

But there's no point further arguing. Neither I nor you guys will back down. And I totally understand your POV, coming from being pissed at an expansion that desperately calls for a patch.

But going back to the original comment that started this, I still say BtS is finished. Needing a patch? Most definitely. But finished all the same.

It's like a fridge. You buy a fridge, and it keeps your milk cold. But it leaks water. The fridge is complete, but needs repairing.

Thanks for the fun and stayed tuned for regular viewing.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Dale

As a consumer I can see why you're pissed. BtS is buggy. But it's complete.

As a consumer that is BS. Only a software writer would say such a thing. Buggy is incomplete.

edit - If my fridge leaks b/c it has a bad part but the manufacturer knows this yet sells the fridge anyway, they intentionally sold me an incomplete unit.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dale
So because you say it it's true? How arrogant of you.

The dictionary says it's true, that's not my arrogance it's my ability to read.

For those who listen properly, and those who read an entire page not just the "first definition", regression cannot apply to an advanced or newer version.

That's the most absurd definition. It's also showing you don't understand how dictionaries work. Things in later definitions do not negate what is said in the first...

If I checked into a project a new function which slowed down performance by 800%, is this not a newer version?
Is this not a regression?

How naive. You think my work on Civ4 was limited to Desert War and RtW?

I've no idea who the hell you are aside from your look-at-me-I'm-important title about how you're a scenario designer. Did you want a gold star? What did you do on Civ4 if not design scenarios?

I have not had stability problems with any of the versions. SP or MP. The majority of people I know who play Civ have the same experience as me. Just because you have a **** computer doesn't mean you can blame Civ.

Yes, it's the computers I've run it on.
First I ran it on an Athlon 64 3200+ on XP, then I ran it on a Core 2 QX6700 on Vista, then I ran it on a 2.2GHz MacBook Pro in Vista. The crashes have occured on all of them, it's not all three computers, it's the game that crashes. I've looked at the crash output too, and it's not a driver or hardware issue, it's usual amateurish **** like "divide by zero" errors that crash out the entire application.

Because BtS has not regressed. It is at a higher level in design, development and content.

The quality of BtS has regressed...you do not have the ability to comprehend the difference between saying "X has regressed" and "This factor of X has regressed". That is your own limitation, but it's frustrating to any reasonable person.

Let's look at another meaning of regression as might be applied to some people here:

"Reversion to an earlier or less mature pattern of feeling or behavior."

Or even:

"gradual loss (as in old age) of memories and acquired skills"

Pick which one applies to you.

"Reversion to an earlier or less mature pattern of bugginess and stability"

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Clearly, a company that releases one buggy game, one not-buggy game, and then another buggy game has regressed with respect to quality control and its relationship with customers, which is what the original point was.

This thread is pitiful and makes me wish that I could sterilize and disenfranchise people at will.

Except!!! It's the not buggy turn.

[Lancer]

Three guys sitting at a bar, 2 , one . One says, man, I'm so cuz my wife has cut me back to once a week.

The other says "That's nothing. My wife has cut me back to once a month!

The says, Ha! That's nothing, my wife has cut me back to once a year!



So why are you so damned happy ask the two ?

The replies "Cuz tonights's the night!"

Yup, it's the turn of the not buggy.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Dale
"gradual loss (as in old age) of memories and acquired skills"

OMG but you're still getting older so it's not a regression!!!111[/Dale]

[Krill]

Moderators might not spam, but they do troll...

(at least I hope it's a troll )

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Jesus Dale, stop it already. It does not make you look smarter. At the coutrary, it bears the danger of you losing the respect you may have earned by your modding.

Since you deliberately choose not to comprehend (I try to put it nicely), but send whole armies of strawmen in our direction, here's it extra clear for you.

No, BtS as a whole is not a regression. It is, at the countrary, an immense progression in design and complexity. I don't talk about art as it is secondary in a TBS. But that is not what we are talking about. I repeat it, to get it into your brain more reliably. That is not what we are talking about. Got it? No? Ok, again: Concepts and complexity are not what we are talking about. Absolutely not. If you still didn't get it, there is no point in continuing this discussion at all.

We are not talking about complexity, performance and arts. We are talking about general game quality, about openness and honesty toward customers. Here Firaxis has rightly earned a horrible reputation during not only C3C, but the whole Civ3 period. You may have not noticed as you chose to spend your time with niche games, but it is true nonetheless.

Plain Civ4 was in a surprising and pleasant manner different. The game was good and polished from the start, and there were armies of developers present in the forums to explain game concepts, to talk about map scripts, modding in general, to find and weed out remaining bugs. The trust of the players, which was deservedly lost during Civ3, slowly returned and began to shine like last time in Civ2 and SMAC times.

An immense progress in quality customer relations, isn't it? Could all have been nice and dandy, if not ...

... there was Warlords. A somewhat poor expansion if you ask me. It added little and shifted game focus towards war. An albeit important, but pretty onesided approach to the game. There are better war games out there, Civ shouldn't try to compete with them. But things were corrected ...

... when BtS came out. It retained the features of Warlords and added many economical features, to balance the general game concept again in the middle between war and peace. It could be the best Civ of all times, if not ...

... it was very buggy. And here the regression kicked in. Not in concepts or complexity. In quality and openness to the community. At the moment it is not better than it was during C3C times, the improvement gained with Civ4 is gone. The similarities are glaring obvious. We have a rushed and unpolished expansion. We have devs and publishers stating that they "work on a patch", but nothing happens for many months. In C3C it never came, so do you really blame people for being afraid they get the shaft again? Old habits die hard.

This patch is due several months now, but no sign of any progress on it. But there are talks about other games, about a simplified "Revolutions" and even Civ5. And that's what buggers people like Spikey and me. Get it finished, before you talk about new stuff. Quick before your reputation is in the basement again. And failing that because it is too much work that can't be rushed, at least talk to us! Throw us a bone and goddamnit, continue to work on it and stop yabbering about new games!

And no, a game is not finished when artwork and coding is done and everything works in a halfassed way. I write software for a living myself and know of the habits of the industry. But as you stated yourself, there are still companies like Paradox who take pride in their products. Firaxis was on the right way for a while, before they stopped to communicate again. Let's hope they still remember their lesson.

I'd QFT this but it hardly seems adequate.

Dale, your claims are as untenable as when you first disputed my post, and I hope you will just be able to move on now. This thread isn't doing you any favours, and I don't like to see that happening to a contributor to the community.

We all have a shared interest in Civ4 being finished, and lets just focus on that.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Krill
Moderators might not spam, but they do troll...

(at least I hope it's a troll )

I'm not a mod BTW.

[Dale]

Originally posted by DrSpike


I'd QFT this but it hardly seems adequate.

Dale, your claims are as untenable as when you first disputed my post, and I hope you will just be able to move on now. This thread isn't doing you any favours, and I don't like to see that happening to a contributor to the community.

We all have a shared interest in Civ4 being finished, and lets just focus on that.

Let's agree to disagree then.

As for my contributions, they stand by themselves. What I say has no bearing on them. Aside from that I could care less if this "lowers my standing in the community".

[Asher]

If that were true you wouldn't be walking around with a big sign discussing how important you are to Civ.

[Dale]

Originally posted by Asher
If that were true you wouldn't be walking around with a big sign discussing how important you are to Civ.

You'd have to take that up with the Poly-mods.

[Asher]

I suppose they're responsible for your sig as well.

[Dale]

At least I got something to brag about, something that is an advancement and asset to the original. What's your contributions aside from thousands of negative declarations and insults?

[Lancer]

Ok, how about this one.

A Frenchman an Italian and a German go into a bar...