NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

[Ben Kenobi]

Far better at his position than Tomlinson ever was at his.

Taylor changed the way the game is played.

Somehow I doubt you consider LT to be in the top 5 running backs of all time.

Sanders
Smith
Payton
Brown
LT

Depending on where you rank Faulk, he's there.

Lawrence Taylor? He won't even be top 10 in sacks, Ware is better than him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_O'Neal

So's this 6-time probowler who isn't in the hall of fame.

[-Jrabbit]

If you're in the second slot, your most important picks are 1,3,5,7,9. Drafting one slot behind an ideal draft means that my team will be the weakest. Thanks to the snake. Not much I can do about that...

That's exactly the wrong attitude and a poor strategy. The key picks in the 2-hole are the even-numbered rounds. You target 4 guys for the swing, take the one you know won't get through to the next round first, then scoop up the best remaining one on the back side. Easy.

In general, complaining about draft position is a loser's excuse. I love drafting #2 and have won championships from that slot.

A lot of people prefer drafting near the middle because so much can happen while you sit out 16-22 picks. Personally, I think that can work in your favor and makes the decisions much easier in the bargain. The acumen of the people drafting around you is far more influential.

[Al B. Sure!]

Was he any good?

10x Pro Bowl, 10x All-Pro
NFL MVP (1986)
3x NFL Defensive Player of the Year (1981, 1982, 1986)
NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year (1981)
2x Super Bowl Champion

The greatest defender in NFL history.


I can't wait to see how Ben criticizes his credentials and compares them with Tomlinson's. Get your popcorn ready.

[Al B. Sure!]

Lawrence Taylor? He won't even be top 10 in sacks, Ware is better than him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_O'Neal

So's this 6-time probowler who isn't in the hall of fame.

First of all, you need to add 9.5 sacks as stated in the Hall of Fame bio because sacks were not an officially tracked stat in Taylor's rookie year but we can definitely consider his Hall of Fame bio as gospel considering its source. So 142 which puts him 5th all time in sacks, fittingly half a sack ahead of one-time team-mate Michael Strahan.

Maybe you could make an argument for Bruce Smith and Reggie White being better but at best, they're a triumvirate as the greatest pass rushers and defensive players of all time. Anyone else, nope.

[Tuberski]

No. No, no and no. Taylor was an incredible phyical talent that was too high on coke to coach in any way other than 'Ugh! You go get Quaterback!'. The only way he 'changed the way the game was played' was by forcing his own Defensive Cooridinator to play with 10 guys.

Sour grapes Everyone else was coked up in the 80's, as well. Everyone in the football world disagrees with you.

Watch Alby's video and learn.

ACK!

[Al B. Sure!]

Sour grapes Everyone else was coked up in the 80's, as well. Everyone in the football world disagrees with you.

Watch Alby's video and learn.

ACK!

Donegeal is just taking the negative view of stories like the one Bill Parcells says about the Cardinals. That video won't change his mind.

Definitely sour grapes, though. He's still pissed about either the 1986 or the 1990 season, I bet.

[-Jrabbit]

These things are not decided by quantities anyway. Career totals are defined by longevity and team scheme/system more than individual effectiveness on the field. Example: Gale Sayers lacks impressive career numbers due to injury, but was a first ballot HOFer. Comparing any DE to an outside LB completely misses the point -- that Lawrence Taylor did everything a pass-rushing DE does, plus cover half the field (not just a gap) on rushing plays, PLUS pass coverage responsibilities.

A defensive player winning the league MVP Award? Now THAT makes a statement.

[Al B. Sure!]

A defensive player winning the league MVP Award? Now THAT makes a statement.

In fact, a QB or RB has won the MVP award every year since 1957 except for 3 years, including when Taylor won; two when you take away the aberration when Mark Moseley won.

The only other player was Alan Page in 1971. I say this to say that if Ben looks up Page's stats, all he'll see from the 1971 campaign are 3 fumble recoveries and 2 safeties and he'd probably say there's 250 players who had a better year this year than Page's MVP campaign. In 1971, tackles and sacks were not recorded, Ben.

[Al B. Sure!]

Damn why does the display even have Tebow on the bench?

[Ben Kenobi]

That's exactly the wrong attitude and a poor strategy.

Couldn't be more wrong about that JR. The key picks are always the ones where you have an advantage over the other teams. The key picks for the ends are the even numbers. For the start the key picks are the odd numbers. 1,3,5,7, 9.

If this were no so, why doesn't the snake work the other way?

Picking one spot behind the ideal draft, is the absolute worst place to be. I'd have been better off with the end draft than the beginning draft.

In general, complaining about draft position is a loser's excuse. I love drafting #2 and have won championships from that slot.

Yeah, compared with you whining about competitive balance, when your team is as dominant as any other team that we have ever seen in any Poly draft? You've basically defined ungratefulness forever.

A lot of people prefer drafting near the middle because so much can happen while you sit out 16-22 picks. Personally, I think that can work in your favor and makes the decisions much easier in the bargain. The acumen of the people drafting around you is far more influential.

I prefer drafting the ends, I've had considerable success with it. Didn't like the two seed, and mentioned that during the draft. Had a lot of folks that I wanted go a few picks in front of me.

[Ben Kenobi]

The only other player was Alan Page in 1971. I say this to say that if Ben looks up Page's stats, all he'll see from the 1971 campaign are 3 fumble recoveries and 2 safeties and he'd probably say there's 250 players who had a better year this year than Page's MVP campaign. In 1971, tackles and sacks were not recorded, Ben.

So how does that explain the fact that the superior defensive player to either, Leslie O'Neal, isn't even in the Hall?

[Ben Kenobi]

These things are not decided by quantities anyway. Career totals are defined by longevity and team scheme/system more than individual effectiveness on the field. Example: Gale Sayers lacks impressive career numbers due to injury, but was a first ballot HOFer.

Gale Sayers is one of the most massively overrated NFL players ever. Faulk was better, so was Dickerson. So was Barber and Edge, and nobody's saying that they are top tier RBs.

A defensive player winning the league MVP Award? Now THAT makes a statement.

Leslie O'Neal, one of the greatest NFL defensive players (and better than Taylor), sitting on the outside of the hall, speaks volumes to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

First of all, you need to add 9.5 sacks as stated in the Hall of Fame bio because sacks were not an officially tracked stat in Taylor's rookie year but we can definitely consider his Hall of Fame bio as gospel considering its source. So 142 which puts him 5th all time in sacks, fittingly half a sack ahead of one-time team-mate Michael Strahan.

Same with Leslie O'Neal.

Maybe you could make an argument for Bruce Smith and Reggie White being better but at best, they're a triumvirate as the greatest pass rushers and defensive players of all time. Anyone else, nope.

There are better defensive players outside of the Hall.

[Al B. Sure!]

So how does that explain the fact that the superior defensive player to either, Leslie O'Neal, isn't even in the Hall?

BECAUSE HE WAS NOT SUPERIOR?!

Wow. Just wow.

I never heard of Leslie O'Neal before you brought him up and I see now that he was a hell of a player. He may even one day get into the Hall, or he may just go down as very good but not Hall of Fame great, but he was no freaking Lawrence Taylor. Wow.

I know nothing about the Honorable Alan Page (yes, he's a Minnesota Supreme Court justice, believe it or not). Maybe some of the older folk remember the former Minnesota Viking who spent his last years from 78-81 with the Chicago Bears?

Leslie O'Neal, one of the greatest NFL defensive players (and better than Taylor), sitting on the outside of the hall, speaks volumes to me.

That's it. I'm asking for longer signature allowances...

[Al B. Sure!]

If only the Chicago Bears had enough sense to put Doug Flutie at OLB next to Singletary, they would've had the greatest linebacker corps in NFL history and won 6 Super Bowls. AND he would have won 3 MVP's!

Doug Flutie
****ago Bears