NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

[Ben Kenobi]

Mathews is one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah, and the Chargers run O-Line is better than the pass O-Line. I think I just said that.

And the Eagles' run blocking is better than their pass protection...

Those are RB stats. I said QB stat. Completions, TDs thrown, yardage. You won't find Vick in the top half in any of those stats for any of his seasons.

If it's a QB doing it, how is it not a QB stat?

Does it not bring value to a team?

Go tell Steve Young that this run didn't matter:




It doesn't matter how a QB does it. Is there ever a difference between a 50 yard pass or a 50 yard run?

Frankly, no. 46.1 yards/game? LT average > 100 per game for the Chargers. 46 is terrible.

I wasn't aware that LT has thrown 122 passing TD's

[Ben Kenobi]

If it's a QB doing it, how is it not a QB stat?

Do you rank RBs by TDs thrown? No? Then I guess it's not a 'major' QB stat.

Also, comparing Michael Vick to Steve Young?

[Al B. Sure!]

Mathews is one of the most overrated players in the NFL.

I agree. If you recall, I asked in the preseason what the hell is everyone thinking Mathews is a top back for. No Tolbert? No care. Dude is glass and is plodding at best.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wasn't aware that LT has thrown 122 passing TD's

LT rushed for more TDs than Vick has, total. Ergo, LT is the better QB than Vick.

Actually, this is fun.

Michael Vick -

Yards Passing: 20077
TDs passing total: 122
Yards Rushing: 5526:
TDs rushing total: 34

LT -
Yards Rushing: 13684
Yards Receiving: 4772
Scrim: 18465
Passing: 143
TDs Passing 7
TDs Rushing 145
TDs Receiving 17

LT total yardage - 18608
LT total TDs - 168 TDs

Vick total yardage - 25602
Vick total TDs - 156 TDs.

LT has pretty respectable QB numbers.

[Al B. Sure!]

Do you rank RBs by TDs thrown? No? Then I guess it's not a 'major' QB stat.

Also, comparing Michael Vick to Steve Young?

Yes. I would consider a TD pass part of an RB's package that he brings to the team. I definitely would give credit to LT's ability to pass the ball.

Why are you hung up on positions?

I'm not going to discount Percy Harvin's 683 career rushing yards because he's listed as a WR on the Vikings' depth chart just as I'm not going to discount Marshall Faulk because of what he did in the receiving game.

If a QB picks up yards running, does it not contribute?

Is there a difference between a 20 yard pass and a 20 yard run by the QB? Honestly, the 20 yards running is more impressive because it's harder and is more heavily on the player running the ball.

[Al B. Sure!]

LT rushed for more TDs than Vick has, total. Ergo, LT is the better QB than Vick.

You might want to check the stats on that one again, bucko.

LT has more total TD's than Vick's total TD's, though.

LT is a future HoFer. Vick is not. LT is a better player than Vick. There's no argument there.

But it's retarded to say all the work Vick has done as a rusher doesn't matter because other QB's don't do what he does.


How would you even assess someone like Deion Sanders with your narrow-minded view?

[Ben Kenobi]

Chargers kicking Steeler ass. 10-0.

*sigh* what could have been with this team.

[Ben Kenobi]

But it's retarded to say all the work Vick has done as a rusher doesn't matter because other QB's don't do what he does.

The problem is that he's not doing what most QBs actually do do. The extra rushing yards don't make up for it. LT gets bonus points for being a good receiver because he takes care of business on the rushing end. Vick? Not so much. It's like arguing that Vick deserves credit for not doing his job as a QB, but for doing someone else's job.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, 16-0 for Carolina. Did not expect that. This could cost me my playoff spot if Atlanta doesn't wake up.

[Sparrowhawk]

Anyone who thinks that Rushing yards/Rushing TD's don't matter as a QB stat has yet to watch RGIII or Cam Newton (more last year than this)...or for that matter, Tebow for Denver last year. It may not be a traditional stat for QB, but seems to becoming more so and will be interesting to see where it evolves in the years to come.

[Ben Kenobi]

Anyone who thinks that Rushing yards/Rushing TD's don't matter as a QB stat has yet to watch RGIII or Cam Newton (more last year than this)...or for that matter, Tebow for Denver last year. It may not be a traditional stat for QB, but seems to becoming more so and will be interesting to see where it evolves in the years to come.

Not really. Tebow is irrelevant to football. RGIII is actually a decent passer as is Cam. That's what, 2 QBs out of 32?

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, where was this Charger team last week. 19-3 Chargers.

[Al B. Sure!]

Not really. Tebow is irrelevant to football. RGIII is actually a decent passer as is Cam. That's what, 2 QBs out of 32?

Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Aaron Rodgers say hi.


This isn't a new development, Sparrowhawk. Fran Tarkenton was a good runner way back when. I do think that players who played college ball post-Mike Vick have definitely become more mobile, though. You can see the difference between the Manning brothers. While Eli rarely crosses the line of scrimmage on a scramble, he has more mobility than his brother and always seems to be running around back there (less so the past two years that the Giants' o-line has been among the best in pass protection). Mobile QB's are almost a given now, as represented by the fact that Andrew Luck's running ability was an after-thought but he has 216 rushing yards and 5 rushing TD's on the year. Then you got guys like Locker and Ponder who are also talented rushers. Rodgers arguably is the Packers' best back and he has had a slew of games that he led the team in rushing. Then you have the Roethlisbergers and Cutlers who use their running ability to buy time to make the throws.

[Ben Kenobi]

Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Aaron Rodgers say hi.

Rodgers is the only one who's made an impact so far. Let's wait and see how the others do after their first season?