"NFL Football is Back!" 2011 Season Thread

[Guynemer]

Apparently, Harrison has a brain tumor that was discovered by the physical.

Holy ****.

[-Jrabbit]

Wow.

[Lord Avalon]

I hope he gets well.

[Ben Kenobi]

Huh? What the ****? Where do you get it's a wash?

The Eagles could have easily been 1-4 with Kolb. Wasn't this supposed to be their superbowl run?

Vick throws more TD passes and adds 62 yards per game rushing! He is more accurate, throws deeper downfield, and more likely to throw a TD! He also gets sacked half as often, with that offensive line!

But he's also getting paid, much, much more. If I'm paying top dollar I want top dollar production.

The only issue with Vick is his INT% is 4.0% compared to 3.5%! In fact, on a per game basis, Kolb has more fumbles (1.2 per game vs. 1.1 per game)!

INT pct is one of the few team independent measures.

So we're talking Kolb with 2.4 turnovers per game and Vick with 2.5, which is pretty close, and more than made up for by the fact that Vick throws more TDs, is half as likely to get sacked, and runs the ball!

TD percentage is a function of the team.

HOW THE **** IS IT A WASH?!

Both are well down the list.

[Al B. Sure!]

You're retarded, Ben.

And Kolb is hardly playing for peanuts. Arizona gave him a big contract.

[Ben Kenobi]

Team of destiny!

[Donegeal]

How much each is getting paid is irrelevant when discussing which is better.

And Ben, int% is NOT team independant. In the NFL, it is probably more team dependant than in college because how many int's are thrown because of WR error?

[Ben Kenobi]

And Ben, int% is NOT team independant. In the NFL, it is probably more team dependant than in college because how many int's are thrown because of WR error?

QBs are generally pretty consistent with their INT ratios over their career.

[Donegeal]

That's because QBs who have careers long enough to matter tend to play on the same team for the majority of that career.

[Al B. Sure!]

That's because QBs who have careers long enough to matter tend to play on the same team for the majority of that career.

To corroborate this, I was just looking over the per season INT% of some recent journeymen:

Kurt Warner: As high as 5.2% with the 2000 Rams; As low as 1.4% with the 2004 Giants.
Vinny Testaverde: As high as 7.5% with the 1988 Bucs; As low as 1.0% with the 2003 Jets
Jeff Garcia: As high as 3.6% with the 2004 Browns; As low as 1.1% with the 2006 Eagles
Daunte Culpepper: As high as 5.6% with the 2005 Vikings; As low as 2.0% with the 2004 Vikings

Looks like there's quite a lot of variation.

[Al B. Sure!]

I love how the stats CLEARLY show that Vick's performance has been better than Kolb... he's been better by every measure except INT% (4.0 vs. 3.5, so not really that big of a difference even), and adds a lot of value with his rushing.... and yet, Ben is a liar.

[Donegeal]

Ben is alot of things, but he's not a liar. He just refuses to accept things he doesn't want to believe despite proof and facts.

[Ben Kenobi]

I love how the stats CLEARLY show that Vick's performance has been better than Kolb... he's been better by every measure except INT% (4.0 vs. 3.5, so not really that big of a difference even), and adds a lot of value with his rushing.... and yet, Ben is a liar.

Vick's not significantly better. Yes, he is slightly better, but the distinction and the sample size leads me to believe that it's a wash.

[Ben Kenobi]

Kurt Warner: As high as 5.2% with the 2000 Rams; As low as 1.4% with the 2004 Giants.
Vinny Testaverde: As high as 7.5% with the 1988 Bucs; As low as 1.0% with the 2003 Jets
Jeff Garcia: As high as 3.6% with the 2004 Browns; As low as 1.1% with the 2006 Eagles
Daunte Culpepper: As high as 5.6% with the 2005 Vikings; As low as 2.0% with the 2004 Vikings

One, journeymen will have larger cones.

Two, longer careers will have larger cones.

Three, you need more than just the high and low value to establish a pattern.

[SlowwHand]

How much each is getting paid is irrelevant when discussing which is better.

And Ben, int% is NOT team independant. In the NFL, it is probably more team dependant than in college because how many int's are thrown because of WR error?

More than you evidently think. The QB has to throw to a place the play is designed to connect. He can't wait until the WR makes his break and is open. He has to anticipate to a large degree, reading the positions of the defense.