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MLB 2011!!

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  • Was anyone saying he wasn't? The relevant question with Pedro Martinez is whether he is the greatest pitcher of all time.
    I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • "Dominance" can be interpreted in many ways, depending on whether you're looking at a run of peak years or overall career. I know we all mythologize our own eras, so I find the normalization sabermetrics interesting, even if I don't always agree with the conclusions.

      The most consistently dominant pitcher during my adult life? Clemens is tempting, but based on actual observation and how he intimidated some of the best offensive talent of his time, I have to nominate Steve Carlton.
      Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
      RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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      • To me, the most dominant pitcher, at least since integration, was Pedro Martinez. From 1997 to 2003, spaning two leagues, he went 118-36 (.766 winning percentage) with 2.20 ERA, 1761 strikeouts, a ERA+ of 213 (which is so incredible it defies words), a WHIP of 0.940, 11.3 K/9, and 5.59 K/BB.

        To put that ERA+ in perspective, remember that was his AVERAGE for 7 seasons. On the single season list, a 213 ERA+ would be tied for 25th ALL TIME. And, of course, 3 of those above it would be Martinez's himself (including #1 in the modern era, when he had a 291 in 2000).
        I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • Yep, that's pretty dominant. But I'll still take Lefty.
          Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
          RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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          • WOW, what a finish in the NL! Right now, with the final game of the season (maybe) tomorrow, the Giants are up on the Padres by 1 game and play them tomorrow and the Padres and Braves are tied for the NL Wild Card, with the Braves playing the Phillies.

            If both teams win, there will be two playoff games (one for NL West and then the next day for NL Wild Card) and all sorts of other one game playoff scenarios (of course if the Pads win and Braves lose its all settled without one or vice versa).
            I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • In my lifetime, the two most feared pitchers, ie, the two pitchers that you hoped missed your team in the rotation, were Pedro and Randy Johnson. I'm not totally sure that Pedro was more feared than The Big Unit, though his stats were a bit better. Pedro was almost under the radar for a while, because he pitched for the Expos. By the time he pitched for a team anybody watched, though, he was definitely well respected.
              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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              • And a fun game in the Braves-Phillies series as the Braves barely squeak by the Phils and then the Giants shut out the Padres.

                And the playoffs are on! Starting out with the AL East Champs (thanks Boston) Tampa Bay Rays against the Texas Rangers.
                I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                • Originally posted by snoopy369 View Post
                  In my lifetime, the two most feared pitchers, ie, the two pitchers that you hoped missed your team in the rotation, were Pedro and Randy Johnson. I'm not totally sure that Pedro was more feared than The Big Unit, though his stats were a bit better. Pedro was almost under the radar for a while, because he pitched for the Expos. By the time he pitched for a team anybody watched, though, he was definitely well respected.
                  What about Nolan Ryan?
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                  • Yay, Tigers didn't finish under .500.... I got to attend their win today too.

                    Now I'm rooting for the Senators to lose horribly to the Yanks and the Senators to win the WS.
                    Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                    When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                    • Nolan Ryan is one of the more overrated pitchers in history. A good pitcher, but threw too many walks, IMO. His career K/BB was only 2.04 (for comparison's sake, Jamie Moyer has a 2.12 career K/BB), which lead to his career ERA+ of 112 (tied for 276th all time).
                      I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • (Stating this without doing research, which I realize is dangerous with Imran...)

                        Ryan's walk totals are IIRC significantly overstated becasue he was SO wild early in his career. Did he not show much more control in the 2nd half of his career? Whatever. My point is that his wildness, coupled with his extreme stuff, made him quite effective. Intimidating. Thus, yes, he was feared.

                        In the 60s, when mounds were mounds and pitchers were allowed to play hardball, there was also Bob Gibson. He had great control, great stuff, and an intimidating demeanor. When a pitch came at your ear, you knew he meant it. He had one season in the late 60s when he was well-nigh unhittable (won the Cy Young and MVP) and didn't miss a start. Saw him several times. Scary to watch.
                        Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                        RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

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                        • :shrug: I think 'feared' and 'intimidating' are kinda useless measures. Give me the dominant Greg Maddux over the feared Nolan Ryan.

                          As for Ryan getting less wild with age... not much. From the ages of 30 to 40, he had a 2.10 K/BB.

                          I do wonder sometimes just how good Pedro Martinez could be if he played in the 1960s, with the high mound and more umpire tolerance for throwing inside.

                          As for Gibson, his 1968 season was just simply wonderful.
                          I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • I've never seen a pitcher as dominant as Pedro in 1999-2000, but to be fair I've only really been paying attention since mid-1998. The man was an artist (with ridiculous stuff). I actually almost enjoyed watching him carve up my Yankees in that 17K, 1H (Chilli Davis solo shot off the foul pole) game in '99. His stats, at his peak, are up there with any pitcher in history. Others have managed longer careers, more IP, etc. But if you're talking peak value only? Give me peak Pedro. He was a god.

                            Playoffs:

                            The Yankees pitching is a mess right now, so I would be unsurprised by a first-round loss to the Twins. Yeah, yeah, the Twins have this awful record against the Yankees lately. Sure. That continues until it doesn't, ya know? The Twins have a much more balanced offense than in the past, while still having solid pitching. Their only glaring weakness is corner OF defense. With Pettitte's poor performance coming back from injury, I'd call the series a push, perhaps slight edge to Minny.

                            Rays-Rangers I'd say small advantage Rays.

                            The Phillies seem to me to be the class of the NL. What a 1-2-3 punch in their rotation!

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                            • Go Rangers.
                              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                              • Everyone who missed out on the Phillies game, you probably won't see that again in your life. Amazing. Haven't felt like I was watching history since the Joe Carter homer and that was almost 20 years ago.

                                Roy Halladay, one pitch from perfection. The most dominating performance I've ever seen, and that includes his perfect game this season.

                                If anyone could get me a tape of the entire game, I would be thrilled.
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith and Solomwi you will be missed
                                “A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul.” Ste Therese.
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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