MLB 2011!!

[snoopy369]

Meanwhile, Felix Hernandez reminded us why he's going to finish second in the Cy Young race last night... loses 1-0 throwing a TWO HITTER. Unfortunately one of those hits was Mr. Bautista's 50th. The fact that he's not demanding a trade says a lot for his character, IMO - I'd probably be demanding one yesterday...

[Imran Siddiqui]

It's so ridiculous. Imagine his W-L numbers on the Yankees, or heck, any team with a halfway decent offense.

[snoopy369]

Indeed. And don't forget that people are going to look at the park adjusted numbers and say 'woah, he is gaining a huge advantage from Safeco'...

... which is a great park for a left handed pitcher, and average for a righty.

[Arrian]

I think King Felix may win the Cy, despite the W-L thing. Enough people have been beating that drum that it's starting to sink in. He's clearly been the best pitcher in the AL. I think it will be more interesting to see where guys like Jered Weaver and Jon Lester place in the voting. CC, who has been very good, should probably finish 5th or 6th.

The Yankees are doing a reprise of September, 2000. I can only hope they decide to also reprise October, 2000. That doesn't seem likely with the rotation being CC Sabathia and a box of chocolates.

-Arrian

[snoopy369]

I think there are too many media/etc. types that just don't consider a 12-12 record to be adequate, regardless of the other details. I remember when the candidates were announced, the PTI discussion, with Bill Simmons even there, being pretty negative on him being anything more than a fringe candidate. I think he probably should win it - but I think he won't.

Unfortunately we won't have a chance to find out about Tulo getting the MVP, as it looks like the Rockies are done. No reprise of 2008 here...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed... too many "old school" types are still focused on W-L. I also think that Buchholz and Lester will cancel each other out. Who knows, David Price may benefit from it. In the NL, it seems Hallady is basically a lock.

And it appears that Miggy Cabrera is getting a big push for AL MVP (which he probably should get).

[snoopy369]

The problem is Cy Young ends up being "Pitching MVP". If it were "Statistical award for Pitching" then Felix would probably be a lock. But until they create a Pitching MVP, it's going to continue to fill both roles somewhat badly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yep, Halladay gets Cy Young number 2.

Do you think this is enough to get him into the hall?

Halladay 169-86 ERA 3.32 1,714 SO, 7x All Star, 2 Cy Youngs, 2300 IPs, ERA+ 136, WHIP 1.18, 3 20 win seasons?

Koufax 165-87 ERA 2.76 2,396 SO, 6x All Star, 3 Cy Youngs, 2350 IPs, ERA+ 131, WHIP 1.12, 3 20 win seasons.

[-Jrabbit]

Probably. Certainly on pace. But if his career ended today, he would not be first ballot. The voters put a lot of stock in those 300 wins; just ask Bert Blyleven.

[Berzerker]

wow, look at the Ks for Koufax

and Price would be a decent choice given the strength of the schedule, Hernandez maybe... Gotta look at the stats closer

[Ben Kenobi]

Probably. Certainly on pace. But if his career ended today, he would not be first ballot. The voters put a lot of stock in those 300 wins; just ask Bert Blyleven.

Yeah. I was surprised how close he was to Koufax. He's still a poor man's Pedro, but Pedro should be first ballot. Saberhagen's the only other multiple Cy Young winner over 150 career wins who is not in the hall.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Probably. Certainly on pace. But if his career ended today, he would not be first ballot. The voters put a lot of stock in those 300 wins; just ask Bert Blyleven.

Depends on how his career ended today. He may not be on any ballot. Koufax had a lot of mythologizing about him. Until the sabermetric revolution, a lot of people considered him to be arguable the best pitcher ever... not sure many still hold that view.

[snoopy369]

I think a 9.2 K/9 and a career ERA under 3 make him a pretty darned good pitcher. Best ever, depends a lot on your requirements for such... longevity is a significant factor. Maddux might be better based on that alone, despite a measly 6.1 K/9... but he did pitch 5,000 innings and win four cy youngs, place in the top 5 six more times, and win 18 gold gloves in the process

[Imran Siddiqui]

Simply saying "career ERA under 3" is meaningless. It doesn't take into account the pitcher friendly era he played in. While Koufax was very very good, he was not the pitcher he was said to be. His career ERA+ (which does take into account era and park factors) is 131, which is tied for 38th all time. That means he was really good, but no Walter Johnson. Or even Pedro Martinez.

Speaking of which, it is hard to say Koufax is "best ever" when Pedro Martinez exists and bests him on ERA+ and K/9. One can make an argument that Clemens is better than Martinez based on longevity and whatnot, but seemingly impossible to make the case for Koufax.

[Ben Kenobi]

Halladay 169-86 ERA 3.32 1,714 SO, 7x All Star, 2 Cy Youngs, 2300 IPs, ERA+ 136, WHIP 1.18, 3 20 win seasons?

Koufax 165-87 ERA 2.76 2,396 SO, 6x All Star, 3 Cy Youngs, 2350 IPs, ERA+ 131, WHIP 1.12, 3 20 win seasons.

Martinez 219-100 ERA 2.93 3,154 SO, 8x All Star, 3 Cy Youngs, 2827 IPs, ERA+ 154, WHIP 1.05, 2 20 win seasons.

If Pedro isn't a first ballot hall of famer it will be a travesty.