I want to learn about FF

[Ben Kenobi]

Remember that receiving yards count the same as straight rushing yards, so what actually matters is yards from scrimmage and TDs.

Ok, your choice is him, or Derrick Ward who rushed for a thousand yards. Sproles is a decent backup RB, but why would you settle for him, when quality starters are still available?

The problem is that Sproles never has, nor will be an every-down back. They will be running Bennett between the tackles and Sproles for the screens. Bennett will be doing the goalines if LT is unavailable.

Rivers leaned on him fairly heavily in the passing game Monday

He will be leaning heavily on Gates + Jackson this game. After that, LT will be back and playing. I like Sproles, but his value is best in PPR where return yards count.

[Solomwi]

Available:
Derrick Ward
Jonathan Stewart
Marshawn Lynch
LenDale White
Larry Johnson
Leon Washington
Ricky Williams

I got Darren Sproles.

Available:
Derrick Mason
Michael Crabtree
Devin Hester
Earl Bennett
Justin Gage

I am thinking that I will get at least one more RB and one more WR.

JM

Stewart's out there? Nice. I almost mentioned him earlier, but figured he'd be long gone. Same mold: a nominal backup who gets enough touches on a regular basis to be useful and has a lot of potential. I wouldn't bother with Johnson or White, or Williams, really, but I think he's far more justifiable than the first two. Lynch won't be back for another couple weeks, but might be worth a roster spot in case he comes back in good form. Fred Jackson looked pretty good Monday night, though. Lynch may not regain the workhorse status he once had. Ward's another one getting touches. His committee-mate has the potential to take over more of the load, but until that actually happens, there's nothing wrong with Ward.

I'd rather add two RBs than a RB and a WR when you have four WRs already, especially given but I think I hammered away on that enough above.

I meant to mention two things earlier:

1. You're carrying a backup TE. Don't. TEs are plentiful this year, and you'll be able to pick up somebody just fine to cover Gonzalez' off week when it arrives. That's one more spot you can use on a RB.

2. Don't panic on your starters based on one bad week.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is Fred Jackson available? He's not on your list, but he should be. He is the starting back for Buffalo, and after reading about him, I totally want him on my team.

[Jon Miller]

Two of my WR have the same bye week which is why I wanted two on my bench.

JM

[Solomwi]

Ok, your choice is him, or Derrick Ward who rushed for a thousand yards. Sproles is a decent backup RB, but why would you settle for him, when quality starters are still available?

Wait, are you choosing between Sproles and a starter, or Sproles and Ward? Regardless, the starter/backup dichotomy is becoming increasingly meaningless in the league. The fact that Ward rushed for 1000 yards in a different situation with a different team in a different division isn't convincing, especially when he's now backing up a guy with twice the talent of Brandon Jacobs who seems, for the moment at least, to be back in top form. Sproles, on the other hand, has become an integral piece of a good offense, and is competing for touches with an aging legend and a guy with slightly more carries over the last three years than me. I like Ward, and think he'll keep a decent share of the workload, but if somebody's going to take over that committee, it probably won't be him.

The problem is that Sproles never has, nor will be an every-down back. They will be running Bennett between the tackles and Sproles for the screens. Bennett will be doing the goalines if LT is unavailable.

You mean like they did Monday? Oh, wait. Bennett's had fewer than 70 regular season carries since the end of 2006. SD showed in Week 1 they're not afraid to use Sproles on the goal line, and that Raider defense was playing well.

He will be leaning heavily on Gates + Jackson this game. After that, LT will be back and playing. I like Sproles, but his value is best in PPR where return yards count.

Yes, that is the best format for Sproles, but his value being better there has nothing to do with his value in this format relative to the other backs available. LT's return won't mean what it once would have. He's on the downside, and it's been showing for a year now. Sproles looked like the better back at the end of last year, and again Monday night. LT will get touches, of course, but Sproles will, as well.

[Solomwi]

Two of my WR have the same bye week which is why I wanted two on my bench.

JM

Yeah, but that doesn't become an issue until week eight. No sense locking up a roster spot for six weeks before you have to deal with it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wait, are you choosing between Sproles and a starter, or Sproles and Ward?

Sproles isn't a starter. Ward is.

Regardless, the starter/backup dichotomy is becoming increasingly meaningless in the league. The fact that Ward rushed for 1000 yards in a different situation with a different team in a different division isn't convincing, especially when he's now backing up a guy with twice the talent of Brandon Jacobs who seems, for the moment at least, to be back in top form.

The last time we saw sproles starting against the Steelers, he did just as well as Willy Parker. No TDs, and 20 yards on tons of rushes. The game tomorrow will start Bennett (which is why the Chargers picked him up), with Sproles. They are not going to run Sproles between the tackles against Baltimore, other than to keep the defenses honest.

Sproles, on the other hand, has become an integral piece of a good offense, and is competing for touches with an aging legend and a guy with slightly more carries over the last three years than me.

Ahh, I love LT haters. LT will likely play tomorrow as well, and may even start depending on how Norv uses him. I can see Norv putting LT in for the first set of drives, and then pulling him out to heal up.

You mean like they did Monday?

Monday was a different situation. LT started, and ran for nearly 60 yards and a TD before his ankle got sprained. They put Sproles in for the final drive. This game will likely have LT in for the first set, and then they will pull him out, and run with Bennett and Sproles.

Oh, wait. Bennett's had fewer than 70 regular season carries since the end of 2006. SD showed in Week 1 they're not afraid to use Sproles on the goal line, and that Raider defense was playing well.

I'm sorry, but even if heaven and earth moved, I would not start Sproles in JM's league. Not against Baltimore, not against anyone.

Yes, that is the best format for Sproles, but his value being better there has nothing to do with his value in this format relative to the other backs available.

Sproles averaged 2 yards per carry on Monday. LT averaged 4 and a half. Night and day. Sproles demonstrated that he was unable to successfully rush against the Oakland defense. They are not going to rush him between the tackles not while they have Bennett available.

LT's return won't mean what it once would have.

The man got 57 yards on 12 carries, along with a TD, despite sitting out the 4th quarter. Do you by any chance own LT, I'd totally trade you for him.

He's on the downside, and it's been showing for a year now. Sproles looked like the better back at the end of last year, and again Monday night.

How on earth was Sproles the better back? He only got 20 yards on the ground. If anything, he proved the opposite.

LT will get touches, of course, but Sproles will, as well.

And LT will get the bulk of the touches for the season by the Bolts not playing him against Baltimore, and running Bennett up the gut.

[Jon Miller]

There seems to be a lot of argument about Sproles.

How fast can you change your Bench and your Active players?

Do I want to change anything? I don't think my new acquisitions go through until Sunday.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't know how your league works it but mine is pretty much instantaneously.

The problem with Sproles is he just won't get the bulk of the carries for the Chargers' running game unless they have no other options.

[Solomwi]

Sproles isn't a starter. Ward is.

No. Ward is not a starter.

The last time we saw sproles starting against the Steelers, he did just as well as Willy Parker. No TDs, and 20 yards on tons of rushes. The game tomorrow will start Bennett (which is why the Chargers picked him up), with Sproles. They are not going to run Sproles between the tackles against Baltimore, other than to keep the defenses honest.

The point isn't whether they're going to run him between the tackles. They're going to throw him the ball, run him wide and run him inside some. Between the tackles is a smaller part of their offense this year than in the past, and will be smaller still with Bennett playing the LT role, to the extent he does. You're pinning an awful lot on a guy with four meaningful carries last year, and the same four constituting his entire Charger career.

Ahh, I love LT haters. LT will likely play tomorrow as well, and may even start depending on how Norv uses him. I can see Norv putting LT in for the first set of drives, and then pulling him out to heal up.

I don't hate LT. I just recognize that he isn't the same runner he was two years ago. 30-year old RBs are simply at the point that they begin to decline, and LT has shown no sign of bucking that trend. You may be right that he starts and plays, but (a) he won't get anywhere near his usual workload, and (b) that just furthers my point about the meaninglessness of the starter/backup distinction. Do you watch the games or just read box scores?

Monday was a different situation. LT started, and ran for nearly 60 yards and a TD before his ankle got sprained. They put Sproles in for the final drive. This game will likely have LT in for the first set, and then they will pull him out, and run with Bennett and Sproles.

Again, do you watch the games? Sproles was in early and often, and took over sole responsibility when LT went down.

I'm sorry, but even if heaven and earth moved, I would not start Sproles in JM's league. Not against Baltimore, not against anyone.

And you'd have missed out on a 12-point start last week. This week's matchup isn't good, but again, we're talking about adding for depth. With Brown and Portis, neither Sproles nor Ward (nor any other of the available backs you want to pick, save maybe Washington) should start. Even if Sproles rides your bench the entire season, he has better potential for that one shining game than Ward, and that one game is usually all you need to offload a guy on an unsuspecting manager.

Sproles averaged 2 yards per carry on Monday. LT averaged 4 and a half. Night and day. Sproles demonstrated that he was unable to successfully rush against the Oakland defense. They are not going to rush him between the tackles not while they have Bennett available.

Yeah, except down there at the goal line, where he demonstrated the exact opposite. And, as usual, you keep missing the yards from scrimmage point. RBs get credit for receiving yards, even in a non-PPR league.

The man got 57 yards on 12 carries, along with a TD, despite sitting out the 4th quarter. Do you by any chance own LT, I'd totally trade you for him.

Close, but no. 13-55, barely over 4 ypc. Not terrible, but not the LT of old. And no, in both my leagues he was too overvalued by guys relying on the name for me to have any interest.

How on earth was Sproles the better back? He only got 20 yards on the ground. If anything, he proved the opposite.

Again, take the whole picture, not just the snippet that you like, and watch the games. If you just want to look at the numbers, both had 14 touches. Sproles gained 66 yards to LT's 56, and each scored a touchdown, though Sproles' 5-yard run was more impressive than LT's 1-yarder.

And LT will get the bulk of the touches for the season by the Bolts not playing him against Baltimore, and running Bennett up the gut.

He'll get plenty, but Sproles will be in the 12-15 touch range all season, assuming a healthy LT. That's enough to be productive in JM's format.

[Solomwi]

There seems to be a lot of argument about Sproles.

How fast can you change your Bench and your Active players?

Do I want to change anything? I don't think my new acquisitions go through until Sunday.

JM

As Ben said, instantaneously, unless your commissioner inexplicably changed that (and I'm not even sure that's possible on Yahoo). He was bound to be right about something eventually.

That's the great thing about FF. You could go back and forth like that on just about every guy whose name is in this thread. Ben seems to be discounting receiving yards for RBs and overvaluing a marquee name like LT, which are both common mistakes, especially among less experienced players. By all indications, LT is in the midst of a far more dignified Shaun Alexander.

[Jon Miller]

Well, it says something about 20th being when the waiver goes through/etc for my new players.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

No. Ward is not a starter.

Ward has shown he can carry the load, and quite successfully too. You argue I should be worried about the yards, and I'm seeing 1000 yards vs 400 for Sproles. No question here.

The point isn't whether they're going to run him between the tackles. They're going to throw him the ball, run him wide and run him inside some. Between the tackles is a smaller part of their offense this year than in the past, and will be smaller still with Bennett playing the LT role, to the extent he does. You're pinning an awful lot on a guy with four meaningful carries last year, and the same four constituting his entire Charger career.

I figure he'll get 20 carries, probably more than McGahee will get. The maligned Bolts running D doesn't usually give up that many rushing TDs, even though they give up a fair amount of yards. I liked how they tightened up against the Raiders, and I expect to see that same run defense out next week.

I don't hate LT. I just recognize that he isn't the same runner he was two years ago.

Last year you are looking at a RB with 1100 rush yards, and over 1500 yards from scrimmage, and 10 TDs. There are very few other RBs with those numbers, and this was a down year for LT. I recognise that he isn't the automatic number one pick, but give the man credit for what he's done. He's outrushed some big names like Steve Slayton, and I don't see the arguments that Slayton is a bust.

30-year old RBs are simply at the point that they begin to decline, and LT has shown no sign of bucking that trend. You may be right that he starts and plays, but (a) he won't get anywhere near his usual workload, and (b) that just furthers my point about the meaninglessness of the starter/backup distinction. Do you watch the games or just read box scores?

I watched the Chargers game. I saw an LT who was finding his stride and getting some yardage. I saw a Sproles get some awful plays and get nailed behind the LOS. Look at Slowwy, all game he was going, why are the Chargers not rushing LT more? Good question.

Put it in perspective, minus the fumble, LT had 15 pts in my PPR league. That's more than enough for a starting back in my league. Sure it ain't AP numbers who rolled up 40, but it's still solid.

Again, do you watch the games? Sproles was in early and often, and took over sole responsibility when LT went down.

Yes, and Sproles got hit many times behind the LOS on screens. I saw Sproles nearly bobble and fumble several returns. I was very impressed by the good returns he had, but I wasn't impressed with him running the ball. The scoreboard is very clear. Sproles had some good runs, but he averaged 2 yards per carry, which is simply unacceptable for your 'feature back'. Bennett will get his touches this game.

And you'd have missed out on a 12-point start last week.

In my league, I had McGahee for 22, and Jamal for 15, and LT for 10. I had WRs all at 10 to 12 points, including VJax in the flex spot. If I were in JM's league, I'd have better RBs than McGahee and Jamal.

Am I going to trade LT who was my number one pick for Sproles? No. Sproles for McGahee maybe, but McGahee outperformed him last week.

This week's matchup isn't good, but again, we're talking about adding for depth. With Brown and Portis, neither Sproles nor Ward (nor any other of the available backs you want to pick, save maybe Washington) should start. Even if Sproles rides your bench the entire season, he has better potential for that one shining game than Ward, and that one game is usually all you need to offload a guy on an unsuspecting manager.

If Fred Jackson is available, Leon Washington would be my number 2 and then Ward. Sproles before people like LenDale White, certainly, but he'd be number 4 on my chart, and I like the guy! Sproles just doesn't get enough touches when LT is in to rely on him as a backup in a league without PPR.

Yeah, except down there at the goal line, where he demonstrated the exact opposite. And, as usual, you keep missing the yards from scrimmage point. RBs get credit for receiving yards, even in a non-PPR league.

Yes, he did well on the final drive. No question. When he and LT were in, which is the normal situation, LT had far more yards and touches than Sproles. It's only because LT was out that they ran Sproles for the TD.

They are not going to give Sproles the majority of the carries, simply because they will need him for returns more. Good field position will help Rivers put some points on the board.

Close, but no. 13-55, barely over 4 ypc.

4 and a quarter is not 'barely over 4'.

For a guy who was injured that's pretty darn good. Sproles got 2, facing the exact same team, and the exact same line, and was fully healthy. You're telling me he's going to light it up against the Ravens?

Not terrible, but not the LT of old. And no, in both my leagues he was too overvalued by guys relying on the name for me to have any interest.

I picked him at 12. Good deal, he outperformed Stephen Jackson and Slaton, both of whom went before him.

Again, take the whole picture, not just the snippet that you like, and watch the games. If you just want to look at the numbers, both had 14 touches. Sproles gained 66 yards to LT's 56, and each scored a touchdown, though Sproles' 5-yard run was more impressive than LT's 1-yarder.

You are seriously going to rate Sprole's performance as better based on the fact that he got a 5 yard td over a 1 yard td?

Seriously? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I'll take all the 1 yard tds I can get my hands on and be taking my 6 points all the way to the bank. Seriously. 60 yard run = 1 yard TD.

My point still stands. LT while he was still in had far more yards and carries than Sproles. Thankfully Sproles was up to the task when LT was out.

He'll get plenty, but Sproles will be in the 12-15 touch range all season, assuming a healthy LT. That's enough to be productive in JM's format.

It puts him below McGahee, who is worse than the players JM listed. I'm looking at the list, and as much as I like Sproles, I see tons of people I would take over him.

[snoopy369]

Ward isn't a starter, and has not recently carried a load - his last experience was in a THREE back setup, after all (hmm, just like now...) Cadillac Williams is the money back in that offense now, though I have Ward on one team and will keep him in hopes he gets enough carries and TDs to be useful.

[Solomwi]

I knew better. I knew better. I knew better.

Rather than another huge, point-by-point quotefest, I'll just throw a few things out for you:

1. As snoopy pointed out, Ward wasn't a starter in the sense you seem to be using the word in New York, and isn't a starter in any sense in Tampa Bay.

2. Tomlinson had a few nice runs, but clearly lacked the explosiveness that made him what he was a couple of years ago. That's a big reason his longest run was 13 yards. Opportunities were there, but he couldn't take advantage of them. It's not a knock on the guy. He's still a good back. He's just not the special back he once was, and he's not going to be again. Point me to one RB who reversed his decline after age 30 or so. Oh, and with all due respect to Slowwy, holding him out as an expert here doesn't help your case.

3. Preface: your PPR league is irrelevant, for obvious reasons, but I'll forge ahead anyway. So can I assume that LT scored 13 in your PPR league? How did Sproles do? He matched LT on touchdowns, topped him in yardage and had four more receptions. Oh, and he didn't fumble. I'm going to assume you score 6 points a touchdown and one per reception. That gives LT 8 points for 56 yards (seems odd, but whatever). Sproles' 66 yards, then, should give him 9 points. Add 6 for the touchdown and 5 for the receptions and that's 20 points. However it breaks down, Sproles had more yards, more receptions, equal touchdowns and didn't fumble, so clearly he performed well enough for a starting back in your league and then some, right?

4. Sproles had a grand total of 3 carries after LT left the game. The biggest impact of LT not being hurt would have been that Sproles most likely doesn't get that last carry from the 5. As a retrospective matter, that would have made a big difference, but as a prospective matter, it's a good indicator that Sproles will remain plenty involved in the offense on LT's return. In the meantime, Michael Bennett isn't really much of a concern, for reasons I've already gone into.

5. You either completely missed why I said Sproles had a better game or decided to lie about it. 20% more yards on the same number of touches is why he had the better game. The fact that his touchdown was more impressive (and since you watched the game, I'm sure you know that's not just because of the distance involved) is just gravy.

6. 20% more is negligible, but 5% over 4 ypc isn't "barely over"?

7. I've said nothing about McGahee or this week's matchup. I don't like the matchup for Sproles, and wouldn't for LT. With JM's lineup, though, I'm not looking for a start this week. I've said several times what I'm doing in JM's situation: cramming my bench with RBs to increase my chances of owning the one who has a breakout game. Even if he never carries the load, Sproles has that kind of potential because (a) he's their best overall RB, and (b) he's an integral part of a productive passing offense.

8. Ovie Mughelli outperformed Michael Turner last week. Which Falcon would you rather have going forward?

9. Your "point" pretends the passing game doesn't exist.

By the way, an update from NFL Radio: LT is out.