The NHL Off-Season Thread Starts With a Bang

[Asher]

Martin Havlat is starting a ****storm on Twitter.

http://twitter.com/martinhavlat

I guess everyone saw what happened to Dale....yes, the story is starting to come out but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Lot's of people are telling me to stay quiet but shouldn't the fans know the truth? It's your loyalty, season ticket money and emotions here

Just so everyone begins to understand, Dale was like a 2nd father to me.

Want to be clear. I loved my time in Chicago but moved on. Very excited about Minny,going to give everything I have to the Wild.

@andrewSegal As I said before, I didn't leave Chicago, it left me.

By telling truth, don't want people to think I'm bitter. Everyone in Minn has been awesome, they believe in me and I won't let them down

[-Jrabbit]

Tallon was the architect of his own demise. He cost the Hawks several million in precious cap space, which will prove critical in the next few years.

As for Havlat, he's just got his knickers in a twist because now he won't be getting a shot at the Cup in the foreseeable future. Sure, the Hawks walked away, but they couldn't sign everyone. The question the team had to answer (it seems clear to me) was:

If you can only have one, which of the following two combos would you rather have:
A) Khabibulin-Havlat, or B) Huet-Hossa?

The Hawks made their choice and will live with the results.

[Asher]

New NHL schedule is out.

The Flames play 3 games in 3 nights, and 4 games in 5 nights (twice): December 27/28/30/31, and January 5/6/8/9 (that's 9 games in 14 nights, also).

Very, very unusual...due to the Olympics.

Vancouver gets a 14-game, 40 day roadtrip.

[Asher]

As for the Tallon saga:

DREGER: WHAT LED TO CHICAGO'S FRONT OFFICE SHUFFLE?

Sentiment - bordering on outrage - best describes how many NHL people responded to the news of Dale Tallon's dismissal as general manager of the Chicago Blackhawks.

However, anyone shocked by this move by team president John McDonough didn't pay attention to the constant speculation of Tallon's demise at varying points of the season.

Some close to the organization believe McDonough was looking for an opportunity to make his move which was made very difficult by Chicago's trip to the western conference final and a season most around the league would consider a great success.

There's no question the Blackhawks' recent fumble with qualifying offers (that weren't filed on time for the team's restricted free agents) was an enormous unforced error and while it has been suggested Tallon wasn't responsible for the blunder, as GM he took responsibility.

Was this mistake - as costly as it turned out to be - really his undoing?

What we know is there is a groundswell of sympathy for Tallon, who, upon learning his fate, was also handed a two-year contract to act as an advisor at the same rate of pay he was earning as Chicago's general manager.

This groundswell also extends to former Blackhawks forward Martin Havlat, who - through the direct link of Twitter - continues to tease Hawks fans with suggestive tweets that indicate Dale Tallon's firing was very predictable. "Tip of the iceberg," Havlat wrote in one tweet. In another, he asked, "shouldn't fans know the truth?"

Shortly after that, Havlat's Twitter account crashed because of an overload of responses.

Yes, Chicago Blackhawks fans want to know the truth.

They want to know what Havlat believes led to Tallon's firing.

Hawks fans want to understand how a negotiation that lasted better than three months, focused on keeping Havlat a Hawk long term and involved his agent Allan Walsh, Tallon and now Chicago's newest GM, Stan Bowman, mysteriously eroded.

Aside from reaching out via Twitter, Havlat has been silent and wants to move on and focus on his new home and opportunity with the Minnesota Wild. However, Havlat also wants to clear the air and set the record straight and has offered his thoughts exclusively to TSN.ca on a number of issues he observed while in Chicago, starting with his failed negotiation.

"My negotiation with Chicago was not between Dale and my agent, it was between Dale and McDonough," Havlat said "Why? Because McDonough couldn't stand that Dale was so successful and getting the credit for building the Hawks from a last place team to making the Conference Final in three short years. Remember, we were also the youngest team in the NHL last year."

"I was too closely identified with Dale," he continued. "McDonough knew long ago he was going to fire Dale. He wanted someone he could claim as his own He wanted to stand up at the convention and claim credit for signing this guy or that guy."

Havlat's candor won't be easily accepted by the Blackhawks, and there may be claims of this being nothing more than the backlash of a jilted player, but Havlat's appreciation for Dale Tallon is what drove him to speak up mere hours after Tallon's firing was confirmed.

"Dale and I were very close and I stand for loyalty. The players loved Dale and they are with him. Every single player on that team is with Dale. I still talk to the guys all the time, hockey players know a phony when they see one."

"I was part of a very special team but that team doesn't exist anymore. I am really disappointed that Rocky Wirtz would let something like this happen," Havlat told TSN.ca.

Havlat's parting request follows up on a tweet sent on Tuesday. A challenge for the Blackhawks faithful who may share his views on Chicago's future.

"It's up to the fans now to be heard on this. If you care about the direction of the team, do something about it," Havlat concluded.

That's powerful stuff from a player who loved Chicago, loved the Blackhawks organization, and clearly has a deep connection with Dale Tallon, now the former general manager.

[Sava]

Of course Havlat loved Dale. Tallon overpaid for the guy. For $6 million a year, we got two injury plagued seasons (out of three) from a guy that can't score 30 goals a season even when he does manage to stay healthy. Have fun in Minnesota, Marty.

On a side note, I must say that the quality of the NHL is still pretty low. Since the early 90's, it's been downhill. The early part of this decade was the worst (Jarome Iginla winning an Art Ross with 96 points in a god awful NHL season overall). Things haven't gotten much better. When the likes of Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby are the best the league has to offer, you know you're in trouble. None of the names that struggle to reach the top of the scoring sheets now compare to the stars of just a few years back. The talent doesn't compare either. The same year (2001-2002) when a guy like Iginla can lead the league in scoring, when he was in his prime, a 40 year old Adam Oates was among the leaders in assists. Iginla is still among the top players in the game, and the few guys that best him don't do it by much.

The league is a shadow of its former self. And I don't see much hope for improvement on the horizon. In all honesty, Patrick Kane is not that great a hockey player. But he's the coverboy of NHL10. He'll probably take his place among the NHL's elite next year as the Hawks contend for the Cup once again. It's all become just an exercise in mediocrity.

I play hockey with guys (local leagues, rat, ice and roller) that have close to as much skill as some of the guys I see skating first line minutes in the NHL. The thing that separates the pros these days are the hockey pedigree of being in the system since they were kids and the difference in athleticism they are able to enjoy due to the advantage of receiving a pro-contract. This observation is not meant to be a testament to how good the players on my level are... or me for that matter. We'd all get served. But if afforded the relative advantages, many of the same players I see could easily compete on the pro-semipro level. I think that says more about the lack of talent, the mediocrity, and parity of players in professional hockey today. For heaven's sake, Chris Chelios was still playing. That should tell you something about what it takes to make it on an NHL roster these days.

The fact that guys like Ovechkin and Crosby aren't scoring 75 goals a season is proof that they aren't superstars like the Gretzky's and Lemieux's. They're merely the cream of a very mediocre crop.

[Asher]

I do not at all agree. I think the goaltending since the mid 90s has improved by leaps and bounds (Roy and Brodeur and all of their clones) and as a result, scoring dipped. With the rule changes and the emphasis on younger speed and talent, the game's been better than it's been since I've started watching it for the most part.

The talent level for guys like Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin are off the charts. Better than Selanne, for sure, who scored 76 goals and 132 points in his rookie season. But the game was different back then. It's not that the forwards are less talented, it's that the goalies and defense were far worse. In the late 90s onwards, the emphasis for most teams went on team defense and goaltending over run and gun style shoot-em-up hockey like the 80s and early 90s. It wasn't even until the 90s that goaltending coaches even existed.

I honestly think you're prescribing lower scoring to lower talent forwards, when the real cause was far better goaltending and defensive play. And your comment about playing with guys in local leagues who are talented enough to make 1st line icetime minutes is, frankly, preposterous.

[Sava]

The goaltending is easy to explain.

I'll use Roy as an example since his career was long enough.

Here's Roy early in his career:

note the size of the pads... especially the size of his arms.

Here's Roy on the Avalanche:


I'm glad you brought Selanne up. He had 48 goals and 94 points in 2006-2007 at the age of 36. So if a 36 year old Selanne does that in today's NHL. What does 22 year old Selanne do?

Sure, the worst of 80's and early 90's (goaltending and D) were bad. They wouldn't be on today's NHL rosters. But that doesn't negate my point. It's just mediocre now. Everyone can skate and shoot. It's a question of parity. Nobody is really all that great. And the superstars of the 80's and 90's would still be dominant today. In fact, the careers that did overlap this era have shown that older, broken down superstars of that day are still among the NHL's elite. Which, IMO, does not compare to the 80's and 90's.

And reread what I said about the guys that I play with (or have seen in the same level). I think you misunderstand the point. To further elaborate, talent is one aspect of a player. The NHL player has athleticism (a luxury gained by the free time afforded a player through rigorous practice and work out schedules) which leads to size and speed. The actual talent of passing, shooting, awareness, stickhandling are skills where the disparity is not as great. Most of the people I've seen can easily make an NHL roster if all they did was work out and play hockey all day. Another part of it is the culture of being in NHL systems. Playing for certain leagues and junior systems. Even guys that play in America college leagues don't have as good a chance to make an NHL roster despite the fact that they are just as good as their counterparts across the world. NHL clubs are biased towards certain leagues, systems, even body types (height/weight).

[Asher]

Still don't agree...

Anyway, Flames claimed Nigel Dawes off waivers. Great pickup, I think.

[Lord Avalon]

Sava, I think your point about athleticism is off. The person who becomes a top professional athlete starts out with a higher natural athleticism than your average person. You put them through the same years of playing & training, and, assuming similar good work ethic, and it's the one with the greater natural ability who gets to the pros.

Even a mediocre NHL player is a better athlete than players who can't make it out of the minors (generally speaking).

Also, about goalies - aren't there a lot more goalies who are just bigger than previous decades (not just using bigger pads)? In the past didn't goalies play standing up more? Now you've got guys who go down in the butterfly, but who are so big they still block a lot of the net.

[Guynemer]

You have a point about goalies, LA, but still, the goalie equipment has gotten out of control. This must be addressed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Used to play goalie in my rec league. Wore pads similar to the '84 pads for Roy, catcher's mitt, blocker, helmet, no chest protector. Was never all that comfortable with the goalie sticks.

We had guys with the full out pro gear. Changes the position from being reflexes to positioning. Move out forms a wall, and that's it.

[notyoueither]

That's an interesting rant, Sava. I don't think I can agree, but it is a very flashy hook.

[Asher]

Washington trades Keith Seabrook to the Flames for "future considerations". Brent Seabrook's brother. Plays for the Calgary Hitmen (WHL) right now, with some awesome numbers for a defenseman: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5967

Last season he had 55 points in 64 games, +22

I definitely approve of these transactions going on. Sutter's stocking the team with a bunch of very, very low-pay, high-potential young guys. Perfect way to go, IMHO.

[Flubber]

Washington trades Keith Seabrook to the Flames for "future considerations". Brent Seabrook's brother. Plays for the Calgary Hitmen (WHL) right now, with some awesome numbers for a defenseman: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5967

Last season he had 55 points in 64 games, +22

I definitely approve of these transactions going on. Sutter's stocking the team with a bunch of very, very low-pay, high-potential young guys. Perfect way to go, IMHO.

He was very good for the Hitmen this year. I also approve of this pickup. Sutter is definitely going with the "you never have enough defence" approach. I would not be shocked to see this kid with the big club at some point in the year

[Asher]

More importantly, the AHL team should be good this year. A good AHL team is great for development.

Plus it's only an hour from Calgary now.