The NHL Off-Season Thread Starts With a Bang

[Sava]

I love the Jokinen argument.

You guys failed to mention that he scored all his Flames regular season goals in the first six games (a hat trick on 3/14 against Gerber of all people... 2 of which were on the PP), then disappeared until Game 4. He's also on the wrong side of 30, has seen both his goal and point total decline 3 straight years, and is -85 for his career.

Cammalleri, OTOH, just turned 27 and is coming off a career year in goals and points.

Iginla could be good for 40 goals. 50 would be a stretch, but wouldn't surprise me. Although, he had a terrible playoffs. 3 goals, well, 1 was an empty netter. And he was -4.

Calgary can hope for second in their division and a first round exit at best.

Oh, and take Versteeg. He can dangle, but doesn't push the puck deep when he should. His instinct is to stickhandle and often gets caught and knocked off the puck. In between each pretty play he makes once every 15 games or so, his poor decisions coming into the offensive zone often derail solid scoring chances. When he takes penalties, they are bad penalties. His positioning on D is poor. His "successes" were often on the coattails of other players' efforts. He lacks the presence and skill to be able to generate clutch offense on his own.

He could get 30 goals playing with a star player. 40-50 points is probably his ceiling if he's the best player on his line.

[notyoueither]

Nice to hear from you, Sava.

[Asher]

I love the Jokinen argument.

You guys failed to mention that he scored all his Flames regular season goals in the first six games (a hat trick on 3/14 against Gerber of all people... 2 of which were on the PP), then disappeared until Game 4. He's also on the wrong side of 30, has seen both his goal and point total decline 3 straight years, and is -85 for his career.

Jokinen isn't on the 'wrong side of 30'. He is 30. He's younger than Iginla.

His point total went down as he played for an increasingly worse Florida team, and then the dreadful Phoenix Coyotes. Neither are shocking.

Jokinen has always been a streaky scorer. Cammalleri went a long time between goals, then scoring hattricks as well. They're similar like that, actually. The difference between the two is Cammalleri wouldn't work well in a Sutter system. He's too small, too weak. Jokinen's a better fit for the grinding style of play that the next season will see.

Jokinen put in 5 points in the 6 game playoff series as well, which is not too bad. Cammalleri put in 3 points in the 6 games.

Calgary can hope for second in their division and a first round exit at best.

Second to who? The Canucks? Certainly no one else in the division is even close.

Canucks are a one-man team with a couple invisible Swedes taking up cap space and linespace on the top line. They'll make the playoffs, they may make it to the division title, but it'll depend on how superhuman Luongo can be yet again.

Oh, and take Versteeg. He can dangle, but doesn't push the puck deep when he should. His instinct is to stickhandle and often gets caught and knocked off the puck. In between each pretty play he makes once every 15 games or so, his poor decisions coming into the offensive zone often derail solid scoring chances. When he takes penalties, they are bad penalties. His positioning on D is poor. His "successes" were often on the coattails of other players' efforts. He lacks the presence and skill to be able to generate clutch offense on his own.

He could get 30 goals playing with a star player. 40-50 points is probably his ceiling if he's the best player on his line.

I don't agree, to say the least. He shows lots of flash. Of course his defensive game isn't the greatest, he's a rookie. What do you expect. As for penalties, the guy has only 55 PIM all season. It sounds to me like you're digging real hard to find flaws with a rookie.

Versteeg shows a lot of promise, and if Chicago is smart they'll lock him down as long as they can.

[notyoueither]

So Philly signed Pronger to a 7 year, 35MM extension. Only it seems that he may be under the 35+ rule. He is on the last year of his contract and turns 35 in October. He'll be 42 in the last October of the contract.

Quite the potential for an albatross for Philadelphia.

[Sava]

Jokinen isn't on the 'wrong side of 30'. He is 30. He's younger than Iginla.

I don't know too many Finns in their 30s not named Selanne who are tearing it up.

His point total went down as he played for an increasingly worse Florida team, and then the dreadful Phoenix Coyotes. Neither are shocking.

Good scorers produce regardless of what goes on in the other end. Nash, Kovalchuk, St. Louis, Doan (from that dreadful Phoenix team), Frolov. If Jokinen bounces back from this downward trend, more power to him.

Jokinen has always been a streaky scorer. Cammalleri went a long time between goals, then scoring hattricks as well. They're similar like that, actually. The difference between the two is Cammalleri wouldn't work well in a Sutter system. He's too small, too weak. Jokinen's a better fit for the grinding style of play that the next season will see.

Ha. A "Sutter system". Dump the puck. Take bad penalties. Struggle on offense. I agree then. Jokinen is perfect for that.

Jokinen put in 5 points in the 6 game playoff series as well, which is not too bad. Cammalleri put in 3 points in the 6 games.

Yup. Jokinen had one good game. It broke the 15 game goalless streak. Don't be too down on Cammalleri. I know you are sad he's gone, but the Flames as a whole had a bad series. You lost a legit first line center.

Second to who? The Canucks? Certainly no one else in the division is even close.

Canucks for sure. Edmonton and Minnesota will be with Calgary for second tier in that division.

Canucks are a one-man team

It helps when that one man is a stud goalie.

I don't agree, to say the least. He shows lots of flash. Of course his defensive game isn't the greatest, he's a rookie. What do you expect.

Dave Bolland

As for penalties, the guy has only 55 PIM all season. It sounds to me like you're digging real hard to find flaws with a rookie.

35 PIM in the third period. I don't know how many times I was watching last year and saw him retaliate for something and get sent off in a bad situation late in the game. The only reason he didn't have more penalties is because Quennville would bench his ass repeatedly for **** like that.

It's not easy to dig real hard if you watch him last year. There's potential with Versteeg, but he's got a long way to go.

Versteeg shows a lot of promise, and if Chicago is smart they'll lock him down as long as they can.

Sure. He provides good depth. If the ruling goes for the Hawks, they can keep him for cheap. But if he can go unrestricted, he is not going to be worth the $1.5-2 million he'd probably command on the open market. And that may be a low estimate. The Hawks are already going to be handcuffed by the cap when it comes time to sign Toews, Kane, and Keith. There are others in the Hawks system that can step in and do what Versteeg did and probably play better D.

[Sava]

Nice to hear from you, Sava.

thanks
I'm still alive

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm going to make you ban me before I stop going to down on Ben for his rampant stupidity. Enough is enough. If he's here and I'm here, it's going to continue. The only way to make it stop is to pick one of us and get rid of them.

Ben should just get banned. The signal to noise ratio with him is nil. He's a cancer to the site.

The difference is I'm not calling for Asher to be banned. He's the one dishing out ultimatums...

[Asher]

I don't know too many Finns in their 30s not named Selanne who are tearing it up.

How many in their 20s do you know?

Good scorers produce regardless of what goes on in the other end. Nash, Kovalchuk, St. Louis, Doan (from that dreadful Phoenix team), Frolov. If Jokinen bounces back from this downward trend, more power to him.

Funny, Jokinen had comparable output to most of the people you mentioned. Most of those guys are also, and have always been, better players than Jokinen. A ridiculous comparison. They make considerably more money than Jokinen also.

Yup. Jokinen had one good game. It broke the 15 game goalless streak. Don't be too down on Cammalleri. I know you are sad he's gone, but the Flames as a whole had a bad series. You lost a legit first line center.

Cammalleri didn't play centre. Calgary has/had way too many centres. And yes, I liked him and I'm not down on him. But I also know he wouldn't do as well under Brent Sutter as Jokinen will.

Ha. A "Sutter system". Dump the puck. Take bad penalties. Struggle on offense. I agree then. Jokinen is perfect for that.

It's gotten the Flames within one blown call of the Stanley Cup, which is more than we can say about the Hawks in the last five years.

Dave Bolland

Not as good a scorer.

[Asher]

The difference is I'm not calling for Asher to be banned. He's the one dishing out ultimatums...

Yes, because I don't tolerate bull**** and that's all you know.

Look at this. I just completely demolished your most recent post and you pretend to just ignore it.

You just went on about how Mcellhinney was so terribly bad in the Edmonton game when he had a win with a 97.2% svp.

Man, what is wrong with you.

[Asher]

The Pronger contract gets more interesting:

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=284062

DREGER: DEBATE BREWING OVER PRONGER'S CONTRACT

If Chris Pronger retires with term and salary remaining on his contract after next season, does his money stay on the Flyers' cap?

There's some confusion today in Philadelphia over that simple question.

According to the NHL, the answer is yes. The seven-year, $35 million extension Pronger agreed to on Tuesday doesn't commence until after June 30, 2010. Pronger will be 35 at that point and any remaining salary will remain on the cap.

The Flyers disagree and interpret the CBA language governing the "over 35" clause differently.

Sources say the Flyers' lawyers are now aware of the league's stance and are debating this issue.

Chris Pronger turns 35 on October 10, almost a full year before his seven-year extension with the Flyers kicks in.

[Asher]

Versteeg signs. 3 years, over $9M total. Way higher than Sava would like to see. Don't think Sava's up to speed on the going price of skilled young forwards.

Hudler signs with the KHL for 1 year in Russia?

[notyoueither]

Is Tallon fired before the season starts?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, because I don't tolerate bull**** and that's all you know.

You also whine when you lose. I find it rather amusing that after Imran warns you, you get pissy and demand that he ban me. Classic.

Look at this. I just completely demolished your most recent post and you pretend to just ignore it.

Demolished? You did nothing to address the fact that over the body of work last season, the Canucks now have the superior back up.

You just went on about how Mcellhinney was so terribly bad in the Edmonton game when he had a win with a 97.2% svp.

And as usual, you miss the point and concentrate on the one point but fail to see the whole argument.

[Asher]

You also whine when you lose. I find it rather amusing that after Imran warns you, you get pissy and demand that he ban me. Classic.

Didn't demand he ban you. I said this is going to continue unless one of us is banned. If we're both going to be posting on the same sites, there's no possible way for me to communicate with you without profound amounts of expletives and increasingly harsh insults. Words cannot describe how stupid you are, and I am happy to let you know how to improve yourself.

Demolished? You did nothing to address the fact that over the body of work last season, the Canucks now have the superior back up.

Do some research. Gillis says it's a strong possibility Raycroft is the AHL goaltender, not NHL backup.

And as usual, you miss the point and concentrate on the one point but fail to see the whole argument.

Your point was Macklebackup is a terrible goaltender. For evidence, you cited a game 'you saw' vs Edmonton where he was 'terrible'. Not only was he not terrible, he was the game's first star and was outstanding.

That was one of the very few games he actually started last year.

If you actually saw the game, you'd know he's not a terrible goalie like you're claiming. You are a ****ing worthless liar, Ben, and nothing more.

[Ben Kenobi]

Didn't demand he ban you. I said this is going to continue unless one of us is banned. If we're both going to be posting on the same sites, there's no possible way for me to communicate with you without profound amounts of expletives and increasingly harsh insults. Words cannot describe how stupid you are, and I am happy to let you know how to improve yourself.

Sounds like a win-win to me. You swear at me, you get banned. Everyone is happy.

Your point was Macklebackup is a terrible goaltender. For evidence, you cited a game 'you saw' vs Edmonton where he was 'terrible'. Not only was he not terrible, he was the game's first star and was outstanding.

I also cited his stats which were atrocious.

As usual you ignore inconvenient facts.