The NHL Off-Season Thread Starts With a Bang

[Asher]

I notice you ended your bolding right here.

Because it's not really that relevant.

There's a lot of kids in the minors that can come step it up. It's true we can't go shopping for big cap-space players on the market if we get an injury, but that's true for any good team (they play near the cap ceiling).

[Ben Kenobi]

Calgary has lost two top 6 forwards compared to what they STARTED with last year. bert was a bit of a bust despite his sometimes 'did you see that moments, so no big loss. Cammy will be missed. But overall they have lost a forward that is very good but not in anyone's top 10 in the league and picked up a guy that will likely be their number one dman (Phaneuf could compete for that spot)

No quibble with this analysis. Defense is improved, but at the cost of your top forward. Canucks should have the best goaltending and the best offense in the division.

1. Jokkinen replaces Cammy (compared to season start last year)-- recall this team scored fairly well even before he joined

But scored less with Jokinen. I'm not convinced that locker room cancer Jokinen helps you.

2. A bag of pucks replaces bert-- sorry but 15 goals with all the time and PP time he got is just awful

You still have to replace 65 goals somewhere. Is Jokinen going to score 65?

3. Iggy stays being Iggy for another year

Agreed.

4. Phaneuf rebounds under brent Sutter and being pushed by Bowmeester

Agree.

5. Bowmeester plays his usual way

Agree.

6. brent gets more out of the team than Keenan does

Agree.

7. Kipper is more like 3 seasons ago than last year

This I don't agree. I think his year this year will be same or worse.

8. Moss, Boyd and backlund all either break out or continue their upward development

This is something I'd have liked to have seen. The Cammeleri line worked last year. Now it doesn't.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's a lot of kids in the minors that can come step it up. It's true we can't go shopping for big cap-space players on the market if we get an injury, but that's true for any good team (they play near the cap ceiling).

We won the division losing our best player.

Are you saying all the best teams have terrible cap management?

[Asher]

No quibble with this analysis. Defense is improved, but at the cost of your top forward. Canucks should have the best goaltending and the best offense in the division.

LOL...Cammalleri the top forward last year? **** Ben. Retarded.

But scored less with Jokinen. I'm not convinced that locker room cancer Jokinen helps you.

Locker room cancer **** is old. Not one player who has played with him has made that comment, and most say the exact opposite (including his coaches). That line comes from Matthew ****ing Barnaby -- who has never played or been in a locker room with Jokinen -- who was trying to sound interesting while doing colour.

Flames were scoring less near the end of the year not because of Jokinen, but because of injuries. That was obvious to anyone who has seen the team play.

You still have to replace 65 goals somewhere. Is Jokinen going to score 65?

What the flying **** are you talking about?

Why does Calgary need to 'replace 65 goals'? Where the **** did that number come from?

Calgary needs to change the net goal differential. One way to do that is to massively improve the defense, which the Flames did by acquiring JBo and Brent Sutter. Calgary was #1 in the league in defense not too long ago (the last time a Sutter coached). It can be a top 3 defense again, and it will.

Flames added Jokinen, who scores 30-40 goals per year to replace Cammalleri, who scores around the same.

This is while massively shoring up the biggest weakness of the team last year: the defensive play.

Further, the expectation is players like Boyd, Moss, and Backlund will continue their progression to being better players and contributing more offensively.

This I don't agree. I think his year this year will be same or worse.

You don't know **** all. Kipper plays very well behind a Sutter-coached system. The #1 critique from both Kipper and the Flames players last few years under Keenan was the lack of a rigid system. Kipper had trouble adjusting to it, as did many of the players.

Kipper will have better stats next year, if only because the defense infront of him will be much better.

This is something I'd have liked to have seen. The Cammeleri line worked last year. Now it doesn't.

What the **** are you talking about?

THERE WAS NO CAMMALLERI LINE. If you watched the ****ing Flames, you'd know the only constant on the top line was Iginla. Everyone else rotated around with Mixmaster Mike having a fun time.

[Ben Kenobi]

Calgary was #1 in the division in scoring last year. We can take a hit there if we can massively improve our defensive corps, which was not good.

It means you'll be in more tight games and relying on Kippersoft who was weak.

Haven't you got the memo? Trapping doesn't work in the new NHL.

Sedins are another year older.

So has Iginla.

Sundin has not re-signed, and even if he is, the Sundin-Demitra line you're excited about would be old for an old-timer's league, let alone the NHL. You've lost Pyatt also, and who did you replace him with?

Sundin is old, but Demitra is the same age as Iginla.

As for Pyatt, we'll replace him the same way you replace Bert. With a bag of pucks.

Your goaltending is NOT better, it's the same. So is Calgary's.

Better last year. Better this year. Our backup can win us games unlike McElheiney.

Summary for Vancouver: Forwards are status quo, which was not good enough. Goaltending is status quo. Defensive corps is much worse. Overall, a worse team by most estimations.

From the start of last season?

Burrows, Kesler both had breakout seasons.

Raymond, Hanson are better then they were.

Grabner is now ready. The core of the forwards are young, and getting better.

Calgary did drop Cammy, but Jokinen playing for the full season makes up for most of that. Last year's team was too offensive, not good enough defensive.

Calgary scored fewer goals with Jokinen then without. He made you worse last year then you were without him.

With Bouwmeester in the lineup, there is at least a glimmer of hope that maybe next year’s Flames can contend for the Stanley Cup.

I'll take, "People who love their bong" for 200 Alex.

[Ben Kenobi]

Locker room cancer **** is old. Not one player who has played with him has made that comment, and most say the exact opposite (including his coaches). That line comes from Matthew ****ing Barnaby -- who has never played or been in a locker room with Jokinen -- who was trying to sound interesting while doing colour.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Maybe it is a duck!

Flames were scoring less near the end of the year not because of Jokinen, but because of injuries. That was obvious to anyone who has seen the team play.

And Jokinen, god of the Flames, couldn't make up the slack.

Calgary needs to change the net goal differential. One way to do that is to massively improve the defense, which the Flames did by acquiring JBo and Brent Sutter. Calgary was #1 in the league in defense not too long ago (the last time a Sutter coached). It can be a top 3 defense again, and it will.

I'm not arguing against the plan. I think it's solid, but in the end it relies on Kippersoft. He's not the same as he was 3 years ago.

Kipper will have better stats next year, if only because the defense infront of him will be much better.

So will Luongo who won't play months with an injury. So even if Kipper gets better, he still won't be as good as Luongo healthy throughout the season.

THERE WAS NO CAMMALLERI LINE. If you watched the ****ing Flames, you'd know the only constant on the top line was Iginla. Everyone else rotated around with Mixmaster Mike having a fun time.

Your young kid line was great. Now you've lost Cammalleri. At least the Canucks didn't lose any forwards.

[Asher]

It means you'll be in more tight games and relying on Kippersoft who was weak.

Haven't you got the memo? Trapping doesn't work in the new NHL.

Complete ****ing idiot.

The Flames have never been a trapping team. Daryl Sutter has always been a vocal critic of the trap.

Ironically, it was the Canucks who were trying the trap last year. Get a 1 goal lead, trap it and hope Luongo stands on his head. You're right, it didn't work.

But that's not how Sutter's Flames have ever worked. They play a hard, forechecking, physical, grinding game. Not a trap.

This is hockey 101, Ben.

Sundin is old, but Demitra is the same age as Iginla.

Iginla is 32, Demitra is 34.

Can't even do basic ****ing math, Ben. Ridiculous.

Burrows, Kesler both had breakout seasons.

Replace "breakout" with "fluke" or "outlier" and it's more apt.

Calgary scored fewer goals with Jokinen then without. He made you worse last year then you were without him.

Cause and effect, you ****ing ******.

Calgary wasn't even icing a full roster due to injuries once Jokinen arrived. He didn't make us worse, Calgary was sliding before he even joined. This is a complicated issue I do not expect you to comprehend.

I'll take, "People who love their bong" for 200 Alex.

So a hockey hall of famer who has been analyzing the game since before you were born, and demonstrably watches more hockey than you and understands it better than you, is high while you are thinking clearly here?

Get ****ed.

[Asher]

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Maybe it is a duck!

But he doesn't walk, or quack like a duck. There's been no sign of that, ever. It was a lame comment by a lame, talentless player trying to become a lame, talentless TV Analyst (but failed).

And Jokinen, god of the Flames, couldn't make up the slack.

This is a ****ing ridiculous statement.

Jokinen was scoring 0.42 goals per game as a Flame. This is a higher scoring rate THAN ANY VANCOUVER CANUCK, yet you dismiss him like he's worthless.

**** are you ever stupid.

Your young kid line was great. Now you've lost Cammalleri. At least the Canucks didn't lose any forwards.

Jokinen and Cammalleri have similar scoring rates, except Jokinen is larger and more defensively reliable and more physical. Offensively it's a wash, except our defense got way better.

Also, what "young kid line" are you ****ing talk about? This should be good.

[Ben Kenobi]

The Flames have never been a trapping team. Daryl Sutter has always been a vocal critic of the trap.

Which is why you are trading away your top scorer for improved back line? Calgary definitely needs help, but that approach just screams trap.

Ironically, it was the Canucks who were trying the trap last year. Get a 1 goal lead, trap it and hope Luongo stands on his head. You're right, it didn't work.

Which is why we are going away from that style of play as our forwards improve. It's also why Nonuts was shipped.

But that's not how Sutter's Flames have ever worked. They play a hard, forechecking, physical, grinding game. Not a trap.

Right now, they should be hiring Lemaire as an assistant coach. They are the biggest trapping team in the whole division. At least Edmonton understands how hockey is supposed to be played.

Iginla is 32, Demitra is 34.

And Sundin is 38.

Why is Demitra, and the Sedins are out to pasture, while Iginla is not?

Replace "breakout" with "fluke" or "outlier" and it's more apt.

Cammellari had enough flukes tied to his ass, he ought to be our mascot.

Cause and effect, you ****ing ******.

Exactly! You are getting it.

Calgary wasn't even icing a full roster due to injuries once Jokinen arrived. He didn't make us worse, Calgary was sliding before he even joined. This is a complicated issue I do not expect you to comprehend.

Uh, one of the reason you were icing a short roster is because you were paying Jokinen... He was the greatest gift Calgary has ever given Vancouver.

So a hockey hall of famer who has been analyzing the game since before you were born, and demonstrably watches more hockey than you and understands it better than you, is high while you are thinking clearly here?

Don Cherry is also in the hall of fame...

[Ben Kenobi]

But he doesn't walk, or quack like a duck. There's been no sign of that, ever. It was a lame comment by a lame, talentless player trying to become a lame, talentless TV Analyst (but failed).

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Jokinen was scoring 0.42 goals per game as a Flame.

Over 10 games. Stop the presses.

you dismiss him like he's worthless.

He screwed Keenan out of a job. I wouldn't say he's worthless...

Jokinen and Cammalleri have similar scoring rates, except Jokinen is larger and more defensively reliable and more physical. Offensively it's a wash, except our defense got way better.

Which is the clearest sign that Cammalleri is not worth 6 million. Jokinen is more defensively reliable and physical? Seriously? He makes the Sedins look like Conan.

[Flubber]

A few points

1. While Cammy was the Flames best scorer, he was not the best forward all around-- Even in an off year that was Iggy

2. The Flames scored less down the stretch when Bourque, Glencross, and Langkow were out with injuries

3. I don't know what young line you liked on the Flames since I never saw that they had any lines for longer than a period or two before Mike started switching things up (usually to put whomever he perceived as playing well with Iggy)-- Boyd - Moss and Glencross OFTEN had chemisty when they were put together but they would get two shifts together and then never see the ice together for another 5 games

4. I don't see where we need to replace 65 goals-- Canny had 39 and Bert 15 IIRC-- so thats 54-I discount Bert's 15 since anyone with as much time as he had would get 15-- split his time between Boyd, Moss, Bourque and Glencross and that combo would be up 15 goals--Even if Jokkinen gets 10 less than Cammy, the Flames will take that result as they hope to be much better on D-- and jokkinen is much more physical than Cammy who as a small guy rarely hit

[Ben Kenobi]

Moss and Glencross OFTEN had chemisty when they were put together but they would get two shifts together and then never see the ice together for another 5 games

THIS.

I hope for your sake Sutter is reading the thread.

[Asher]

As I said in the other thread, am not reading Ben's posts.

Let me just say what would be said anyway:

Ben you are a ****ING IDIOT. There's no way about it. You probably spent a paragraph describing how Calgary is the biggest trapping team in the history of the NHL, how 32=34, Jokinen (a 30-40 goal scorer) can not ever possibly replace Cammalleri (a 30-40 goal scorer, who you had just been whining about being not very good just the other day!), etc.

You are a tool that operates like clockwork. I wish you would **** off and stop pestering the world with your stupidity. Or at the very least, realize that you are way out of your league when arguing with anyone with intellect superior to that of a three year-old, and **** off from this forum. Jesus Christ am I ever sick of your incessant stupidity.

I've honestly had more intellectual, reasoned conversations with small children about hockey than you. I don't think you've ever said anything even remotely reasonable about the sport of hockey, and that takes ****ing talent. You make Don Cherry look like a sane genius.

[Asher]

Oi! Chicago...

(Dibs on Versteeg)

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283634

SOURCES: NHL AND NHLPA INVESTIGATING BLACKHAWKS OVER OFFERS

Sources tell TSN the NHL and the NHLPA are investigating what might have been an enormous mistake by the Chicago Blackhawks.

Chicago tendered qualifying offers to several key players this week, including Kris Versteeg, Cam Barker, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Aaron Johnson and Troy Brouwer, however the investigation underway is to determine whether the qualifying offers were filed correctly.

If not, there is the remote possibility the qualifying offers could be ruled invalid and the players listed above, conceivably, could be deemed unrestricted free agents because of the blunder.

There are few details, but one source says the players involved didn't receive the necessary notification of the offers.

The National Hockey League is in the process of trying to determine whether the situation was remedied in time.

Chicago general manager Dale Tallon says the qualifying offers were mailed to the players in time, on June 29th, but says because of the July 1 holiday, some of the players didn't receive them in time.

Additional sources say qualifying offers are not supposed to be mailed.

Overnight delivery via courier and direct fax to the players agent is preferred and certified or registered mail is acceptable only if the other means are unavailable.

Tallon says fax copies of the offers were sent to the league, so he doesn't anticipate any significant fall out.

However, sources say some of the qualifying offers were not faxed to the agents.

[Ben Kenobi]

You make Don Cherry look like a sane genius.

Putting me on ignore is a hoot.