NFL - Are You Ready For Some Football?! - The Offseason

[OzzyKP]

Dog fighting is certainly bad and I've got no love for Vick's involvement, but I still don't get why his crime is such a bigger deal than the guy who drove drunk and killed a human being. Do we have more sympathy for dogs in this country?

[Zopperoni]

Apparently, there were billboards in Philly saying: "Hide your beagle, Vick's an Eagle"

[Grandpa Troll]

Apparently, there were billboards in Philly saying: "Hide your beagle, Vick's an Eagle"

That spot on

[SlowwHand]

It wasn't sympathy. It was relief that he accepted responsibility from the start.
Vick didn't. Aside from that, what he did was deliberate, and repeated, and disgusting.
I'm not even particularly a dog person, but I'd have shot him, had I wandered onto these activities.

[Grandpa Troll]

Dog fighting is certainly bad and I've got no love for Vick's involvement, but I still don't get why his crime is such a bigger deal than the guy who drove drunk and killed a human being. Do we have more sympathy for dogs in this country?

OzzyKP

Here is my personal view

Yes Dante Stallworth intentionally got drunk but did not intentionally mean to harm or kill anyone, although his actions were certainly wrong.

I agree he shoukld be punished.

Vick however, intentionally meant to harm the animals, by fighting them and then killing those that did not meet a rigid standard of toughness.

Vicks intent all along was malicious.

But OzzyKP, I agree that often a serious crime such as what Stallworth did is met with certain punishment criteria and he did meet the punishment handed out.

I think about my accident Ozzy, I had spine surgery, completely rebuilt wrist through fusion, will never be the same, the driver had an open bag of cocaine between his legs and hit me while I was sitting still at a light, knocked me some 76 feet through the intersection, totalling my new pickup out.

I am permanetly disabled forever.

What did he get Ozzy?

Lost his license for a year and got three years probation for the possession of Cocaine by a Felon.

Yes we are in a lawsuit, in process of settling.

So maybe I end up pocketing a total of $ 400,000.00 if lucky, MAYBE.

He walks away.

The laws are not fair.

If I remember you are big on young persons rights.

If a young person errs and makers a mistake early in life, do we as a soceity ever give him another chance?

Tough questions.

The courts set up punishment guidelines, and yes the intent goes a long way toward the punishment doled out.

Stallworth got drunk and killed a pedestrian.

Vick set up and financed a dog fighting ring for profit and pain to innocent animals.

Go figure.

Great point though OzzyKP, makes one really wonder, no I dont think Vick should walk but then again neither do i feel remorse for athletes who go out and party and get involved with harming innocent working persons.

Gramps

[snoopy369]

Dog fighting is certainly bad and I've got no love for Vick's involvement, but I still don't get why his crime is such a bigger deal than the guy who drove drunk and killed a human being. Do we have more sympathy for dogs in this country?

I think it's several things. First off, Vick did what he did over a period of time, with time to consider what he was doing. In a lot of ways, his actions reflect something in his personality: a brutal side, uncaring, and very selfish. Secondly, he did not appear to be particularly sorry for what he'd done. Even after he'd been 'coached' so to speak, he still didn't seem particularly sorry about it. Remorse is pretty important; people all make mistakes, and folks who admit to the mistake and obviously feel real remorse for it come across much better than those who don't.

Stallworth not only clearly felt remorse for his actions, but in the scheme of things was only somewhat responsible anyway. The man he killed ran in front of him, and it's entirely possible that he'd have killed him even not drunk. He certainly was very, very wrong to drink and drive - and given my personal feelings on the matter, trust me that I do not make excuses for that - but that's really all he did, choose to drive when he was somewhat drunk. I suspect that far too many people have done that more than once in their lives, and are hesitant to condemn a man for doing something they do. In the same vein as Vick, he comes across as selfish and a bit stupid (For not taking a cab or something), but not a 'bad' person.

That, to me, is the difference.

[Grandpa Troll]

I think it's several things. First off, Vick did what he did over a period of time, with time to consider what he was doing. In a lot of ways, his actions reflect something in his personality: a brutal side, uncaring, and very selfish. Secondly, he did not appear to be particularly sorry for what he'd done. Even after he'd been 'coached' so to speak, he still didn't seem particularly sorry about it. Remorse is pretty important; people all make mistakes, and folks who admit to the mistake and obviously feel real remorse for it come across much better than those who don't.

Stallworth not only clearly felt remorse for his actions, but in the scheme of things was only somewhat responsible anyway. The man he killed ran in front of him, and it's entirely possible that he'd have killed him even not drunk. He certainly was very, very wrong to drink and drive - and given my personal feelings on the matter, trust me that I do not make excuses for that - but that's really all he did, choose to drive when he was somewhat drunk. I suspect that far too many people have done that more than once in their lives, and are hesitant to condemn a man for doing something they do. In the same vein as Vick, he comes across as selfish and a bit stupid (For not taking a cab or something), but not a 'bad' person.

That, to me, is the difference.

Great points

[-Jrabbit]

What did he get Ozzy?

Lost his license for a year and got three years probation for the possession of Cocaine by a Felon.

He's a felon holding Schedule A (or whatever the correct term) narcotics, totaled your pickup and life -- and walked on probation???

Un-B-fckn-leevabl!!!

I'm thinking you'd give up the cash settlement in a heartbeat to see justic done.

[-Jrabbit]

choose to drive when he was somewhat drunk. I suspect that far too many people have done that more than once in their lives, and are hesitant to condemn a man for doing something they do.

Good insight there, snoop.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yep. Lot's of people are very hesitant to condemn someone too much for killing a person while drunk driving, because just about everyone who's gone out drinking have driven while drunk, so it easily could have happened to them, and they'd rather not see anyone get punished too much for that.

Dog fighting on the other hand... even though dogs instead of people get killed, most people commenting would never dream of doing that and therefore you have "throw away the key" comments.

[OzzyKP]

I guess that's the problem. I'd never dream of getting behind the wheel after having a few, so the fact he did and killed someone (again not knowing any other details) is a very severe crime imho.

[Dis]

Yep. Lot's of people are very hesitant to condemn someone too much for killing a person while drunk driving, because just about everyone who's gone out drinking have driven while drunk, so it easily could have happened to them, and they'd rather not see anyone get punished too much for that.

Dog fighting on the other hand... even though dogs instead of people get killed, most people commenting would never dream of doing that and therefore you have "throw away the key" comments.

Yeah it's funny in a way. The protesters seem to think he's the devil. And I'm a dog lover, and hate it when people hurt animals. One detail I forgot about Vick which I rediscovered recently is that he actually killed the dogs himself (along with the other guy). Dogfighting is one thing, but killing them in the methods that he used (drowning, strangulation) is cruel. If he had just shot them in the head, I would be more sympathetic. I hope he realizes why what he did is wrong, and isn't just putting out PR statements pre written for him.

But give him another chance. I don't think he's stupid enough to do it again. It may be for the wrong reasons (ie he probably is thinking of his career more than some animal), but at least he won't do it again.

edit: as for Grandpa's post (article) I just want to say every team wants to win games. I don't fault the Eagles for this. Of course they signed him to win games, and if he can't win them, they need to release him. Every team in the league would like to have him I'm sure (they just didn't have the balls to risk the pr hit). Not as a starter, but think of the trick plays and backup potential he gives.

[Dis]

I guess that's the problem. I'd never dream of getting behind the wheel after having a few, so the fact he did and killed someone (again not knowing any other details) is a very severe crime imho.

I've done it far too often, but never nearly as high a BAC as him. Despite the black and white aspect of the law, you'd be a fool to believe you are just as dangerous at .08 as you are at .14 (I believe this is what stallworth was at). I've never driven drunk, but I have driven around .10 maybe even .12. But never to the point where I couldn't maintain my lane (ie drive straight).

But he did the right thing and stopped and turned himself in.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I guess that's the problem. I'd never dream of getting behind the wheel after having a few, so the fact he did and killed someone (again not knowing any other details) is a very severe crime imho.

We tend to be a bit less harsh on folks if they've done something that we can reasonably think we could have done.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think either should be reinstated, remorse or not.

If the Bolts had taken him I'd stop cheering for them.