NHL Offseason Thread -- Vancouver Edition (NHL Offseason / NHL Golf Tourney)

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Souray isn't under contract in 12/13.

1) That doesn't matter
2) It was a typo and in the next line with more specifics I included the right years

[notyoueither]

And from a Flames perspective, I'd be more concerned about a goalie in decline who clearly signed the contract with retirement in mind.

Not sure if I'd want my most important player thinking about the beach and Pina Coladas as he signs that monster contract.

He will also be 36 in 12/13, btw, and more imprtantly, he will be under contract for another 3.5 million shot to the retirement fund.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

1) That doesn't matter
2) It was a typo and in the next line with more specifics I included the right years

No, you've said it twice now. Once as a quote from some other obvious geeneeus who can't count.

That's no typo. That's a lack of grasp of basic facts that you yourself chose to use as arguments.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither


No, you've said it twice now. Once as a quote from some other obvious geeneeus who can't count.

That's no typo. That's a lack of grasp of basic facts that you yourself chose to use as arguments.

The quote obviously was not mine. Thus the concept of a quote. If you'd like I can lecture further on what a quote is.

The second one was obviously a typo because in the very next line I itemized the caps and the years and the ages and specified 2011/2012.

For my memory-challenged comrade, the original quote was:

Just to put this in perspective...

Robyn Regehr + Dion Phaneuf are both cheaper in terms of cap space in 2012/2013 than Souray & Visnovsky.

In 2011/2012:
Souray & Visnovsky will be 36 years old each with a combined cap hit of $11M.
Regehr will be 33 and Phaneuf will be 28 with a combined cap hit of $10.5M.

Clearly I've got a grasp of the facts, since the only thing you "corrected" was the obvious inconsequential typo that was clarified immediately after anyway.

[notyoueither]

Then why did you quote it, Ben?

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And from a Flames perspective, I'd be more concerned about a goalie in decline who clearly signed the contract with retirement in mind.

You're clearly referring to Dwayne Roloson...

Kipper's got a comparable cap hit to Visnovsky. I'd rather gamble with Kipper than Visnovsky, as would anyone else that's reasonable.

You make it sound like Sutter gave an unproven kid with <100 NHL games and a handful of points a lucrative long-term contract. Or made a $50M offer sheet for Thomas "Vanishing Act" Vanek. Or gave up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick and gave a 5-year, 4.25M contract to a barely mobile pylon.

Not sure if I'd want my most important player thinking about the beach and Pina Coladas as he signs that monster contract.

He will also be 36 in 12/13, btw, and more imprtantly, he will be under contract for another 3.5 million shot to the retirement fund.

Goalies can and typically do play longer than defensemen, on average.

How old was Roloson when he brought you guys to the cup finals? And Kipper's a lot better than Roloson ever was.

How old was Osgood this year when he won the cup? How old was Hasek when he was the starter and last won the cup?

Also, you've either got a factual error yourself or you've poorly worded this. Kipper gets 3.5 mil in 12/13, he gets 1.5 mil in 13/14 (not "another 3.5 mil").

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Then why did you quote it, Ben?

I found it to be an amusing quote. Thus why I clearly identified it -- via using [ quote ] as well as using quotation marks. It was clearly not my own statement, so stop pretending like it was.

Even then, the sentiment is still entirely true -- it was off by 1 year because of Souray's contract lapsing year before Visnovsky, but that's not even the point. That's a lot of cap space taken up by two very comparable players who are very clearly in decline signed up for a very long time.

[notyoueither]

How old are Lidstrom and Rafalski? Zubov and Boucher?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles


I found it to be an amusing quote. Thus why I clearly identified it -- via using [ quote ] as well as using quotation marks. It was clearly not my own statement, so stop pretending like it was.

Even then, the sentiment is still entirely true -- it was off by 1 year because of Souray's contract lapsing year before Visnovsky, but that's not even the point. That's a lot of cap space taken up by two very comparable players who are very clearly in decline signed up for a very long time.

Yadda yadda to cover for basic incompetence before the argument has even started.

If you want to be taken sewriously, at least get your facts straight to start with.

And then, have an effective argument other than 'they will be old.'

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
How old are Lidstrom and Rafalski? Zubov and Boucher?

Great picks.

Zubov is 37 and only played 46 games in the season.
Rafalski is only 34.
Boucher is 35 and played only 38 games.

Lidstrom is an exception (perhaps even a "generational player"). Visnovsky and Souray are nowhere near being his level of skill

But for the most part, you're proving my point. Those old defensemen only play about half a season.

[notyoueither]

And Kipper is no Brodeur.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Yadda yadda to cover for basic incompetence before the argument has even started.

If you want to be taken sewriously, at least get your facts straight to start with.

And then, have an effective argument other than 'they will be old.'

They weren't my facts, hence the quote. When I dove into the facts, I did get them right when I itemized the ages, cap hits, and end of contract seasons.

It seems to me like you're *****ing a whole lot about inconsequential parts and missing the big picture.

I also have a hard time not laughing at somebody who goes off the deep end when I make a typo, and here you are making all kinds of typos in every post you make.

It also seems to me like you're getting extremely agitated to the facts I'm pointing out. You don't even want to look at them, instead you try to deflect and obfuscate and shoot the messenger.

Get some sleep, nye.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And Kipper is no Brodeur.

Would you say he is an Osgood?

He's certainly won more Vezinas than Osgood.

[notyoueither]

Kipper doesn't have anything like this years Wings in front of him, and never will. No other goalie other than Fleury could even hope to come close as the teams sit at the moment.

[Asher]

The other thing to note about Kipper's contract is how steeply the remaining salary numbers drop off near the end. (3.5 -> 1.5 mil in the last couple years). That means if his performance does suffer, he can always be bought out fairly economically.

Souray gets 4.5 mil in his last couple years, Visnovsky gets 5 and 3 mil in his last couple years.

They can still be bought out, but that's pricey.