Stanley Cup Playoff Pick 'Em 2007

[notyoueither]

I really doubt stories of it being all the coach's fault.

These guys are paid millions to play a game they are supposed to love. They could and should be expected to put in the effort no matter who the coach is, or where the game is.

Assuming the Flames bomb at home (unlikely, as Dr. Jekyll has his cue) and if I were an owner, I'd be wanting Sutter to be looking hard at the players who refused to work under a new coach, or on the road. It's Playfair's first year, not theirs.

I'd be looking at players no matter the outcome of the next 2 games anyway. Maybe the coach does suck, and maybe he should be gone if he will never work out, but I note that the players have done quite well with 'the system' in home games. Maybe some of them should be shipped east in exchange for players who can handle travel and who have a little more 'heart'.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I really doubt stories of it being all the coach's fault.

These guys are paied millions to play a game they are supposed to love. They could and should be expected to put in the effort no matter who the coach is, or where the game is.

I don't think it's a question of motivation, it's a question of a system and playing to their talents.

Do you think Sutter built this team to play a system that regularly permits 35+ shots on goal against per game?

but I note that the players have done quite well with 'the system' in home games.

Actually, they haven't. They have won, but that's ENTIRELY because the top lines can get favourable matchups to get goals only. "The system" has always failed -- look at the shots on goals the Flames have faced this year vs with Sutter.

The reason they can win at home is the last-change to squeak in some goals. It's obfuscating the real problem: the system and Playfair's ineptitude.

What is different from last year's team compared to this year's team that could result in such an awful difference in team performance? Answer me that.

Jordan Leopold? No...it's the coach and his system.

This has nothing to do with "heart". The teams has loads of it, it's just muffled under the awful coaching. There's nothing fundamentally different from this team than the 03-04 and 05-06 teams, which had heart and grit abounding...again, the only fundamental pillar that differs is the lack of Sutter and the awfulness of Playfair.

[notyoueither]

A couple of things come to mind as possibilities.

1st is Leopold. 2nd is Ference-Stuart.

The Flames were 12-5-5 from Christmas to the Stuart trade, if I got the dates right. They went 14-11-2 after the trade to the end of the year.

Were all of the personnel changes productive?

I see they are up 3 SA/G, and .35 GA/G, but they are also up .48 G/G. How much does Kipper finally showing he's human have to do with it? The forwards were certainly chipping in.

Throw in the home record, and I have a really hard time agreeing it's 'the system'. The flip side of the line match-ups is that the coach is phenomenal when he has some degree of control, and the players aren't good enough otherwise.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
A couple of things come to mind as possibilities.

1st is Leopold. 2nd is Ference-Stuart.

The Flames were 12-5-5 from Christmas to the Stuart trade, if I got the dates right. They went 14-11-2 after the trade to the end of the year.

Look at how many were home and away in each stretch...

[notyoueither]

2-3-4 vs 6-7-1 on the road.

More road games in the last 27, but not that different a result in winning pct.

I just don't buy this whole coach as a scape goat schtick, especially when the Flames have yet to play a home game in the post season.

I would be wondering why the team sucks so much on the road though, and I'd want to correct that. If the coach is asking his players to do things they aren't capable of regularly, that's a point. Then you decide if you need a new system, a new coach, or some new players better suited for the change.

[Kontiki]

So the bottom line is a GM too stupid to hire a coach compatible with the way he build his team and/or too stupid to fire him once he doesn't perform?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kontiki
So the bottom line is a GM too stupid to hire a coach compatible with the way he build his team and/or too stupid to fire him once he doesn't perform?

Too stubborn.

He rarely pulls goalies, no matter what as well. You finish what you start, in his books.

I just don't buy this whole coach as a scape goat schtick, especially when the Flames have yet to play a home game in the post season.

It doesn't matter. If you don't have home ice advantage, you have to win road games.

If the coach can't get the guys to win on the road, he's got to go. Simple as that.

Given the team's proven track record with its core players, the #1 problem is clear.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Kontiki
So the bottom line is a GM too stupid to hire a coach compatible with the way he build his team and/or too stupid to fire him once he doesn't perform?

Maybe it's a mix. The GM, the coach, and the players.

GM's tend to be more trusted by the organization (and sometimes the fans). Players are expensive and possibly hard to attract. That leaves the coach who gets blamed and is easy to replace. I'm not disagreeing with that. That is the pro sports equation.

I am questioning whether it really is the coach's fault when a team puts on such a gutless display as the Flames did in games 1 and 2.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I am questioning whether it really is the coach's fault when a team puts on such a gutless display as the Flames did in games 1 and 2.

Seeing as both the GM and the team have proven to have immense amounts of heart and grit (remarkably so), by process of elimination the problem is...................

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

I just don't buy this whole coach as a scape goat schtick, especially when the Flames have yet to play a home game in the post season.

It doesn't matter. If you don't have home ice advantage, you have to win road games.

If the coach can't get the guys to win on the road, he's got to go. Simple as that.

Given the team's proven track record with its core players, the #1 problem is clear.

OK. For this coach. What do you do when the next coach doesn't get any better, or possibly worse?

The players have some involvement in the results, yes?

As an owner, I'd be very interested to know why the players wouldn't deliver for Sutter's assistant.

If it's a 'we will only play for Sutter' answer, time to make a whole lot of changes.

[Asher]

As an owner, I'd be very interested to know why the players wouldn't deliver for Sutter's assistant.

Completely different system than that which they are used to and were hired for?

If it's a 'we will only play for Sutter' answer, time to make a whole lot of changes.

Yes. Bring in Brent Sutter.

BTW, where is Sava to come in and tell us Sutter isn't a good coach?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

As an owner, I'd be very interested to know why the players wouldn't deliver for Sutter's assistant.

Completely different system than that which they are used to and were hired for?

So Sutter filled the team up with a bunch of 1 dimentional players?

How good is that defence if they can only win regularly with 5 defencemen and Kipper?

Or they couldn't be bothered to grow without an extra million thrown in?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

If it's a 'we will only play for Sutter' answer, time to make a whole lot of changes.

Yes. Bring in Brent Sutter.

BTW, where is Sava to come in and tell us Sutter isn't a good coach?

Someone on Bobcat's show asked where a Sutter is engraved on the Cup as a coach.

Good question?

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
So Sutter filled the team up with a bunch of 1 dimentional players?

How good is that defence if they can only win regularly with 5 defencemen and Kipper?

Or they couldn't be bothered to grow without an extra million thrown in?

Players excel in certain situations. A GM assembles players to make a team that fits in with those situations.

When you have a team like Sutter has assembled, and put a douche like Playfair with a polar-opposite game system in place, bad **** will happen.

Can you imagine New Jersey playing under Playfair? It'd be even worse, I think.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Someone on Bobcat's show asked where a Sutter is engraved on the Cup as a coach.

Good question?

07-08.

Should be there in 03-04, too, but a ref decided not to call a goal.