Sarah Palin: Completely bat****

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You forgot to add -FACT!

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do you say they're not patient requested?

Sorry, to clarify what I said, I wasn't saying that all of these consultations are not driven by the patient. I've asked myself to do the same thing with my doctor. It's a part of the job description. This bill is referring to the death panels, which would reward doctors for establishing the panels, at their request, ie, the doctors would ask, not the patients.

I often approach my patients to discuss topics without their asking, topics like quitting smoking, cutting down on drinking, proper use of antibiotics and so on. Are you saying that if I initiate a discussion of a topic without a patient asking for it I'm coercing them?

You are in a sense asking them because you believe it is in their best interests as a patient to address these health issues. You are doing it not because you get paid more, but that it is in their best interests. I don't believe these death panels are in the best interests of the patient to discuss unless they bring it up.

[Asher]

Just ban him already, please.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Only if we could ban posters for complete and utter stupidity...

[Theben]

I'm reading this with a combination of and ... I find it impossible to believe that BK actually believes all the nonsense he's spouting. What's your angle, BK? You just like to stir **** up? Or are you checking people's responses to inanity thrown in their collective faces?

[Ben Kenobi]

What's your angle, BK?

I'm leaning towards "he actually believes it", myself.

[Guynemer]

[Imran Siddiqui]

That really makes it worse...

Though I guess Scientologists really believe what they say, so why can't other crazies?

[Ben Kenobi]

Honestly, what's the point of all this if you don't at least believe in it? I mean I don't agree with you folks, but I don't assume that you are being disingenous. I assume you mean what you say and work from there.

[Theben]

I'm leaning towards "he actually believes it", myself.

That's impossible. The levels of cognitive dissonance required would vaporize lead.

[-Jrabbit]

During the last election, I adopted a policy of not engaging Ben in the OTF. My recent go-round with him in the sports sub (which was unavoidable) served to remind me how beneficial that policy is when it comes to current events, politics, etc.

It's often difficult to restrain myself from joining the fray. I have to stop myself. But when I come back a few days later and read the thread progression, I know I've made the right decision.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Honestly, what's the point of all this if you don't at least believe in it? I mean I don't agree with you folks, but I don't assume that you are being disingenous. I assume you mean what you say and work from there.

Problem is that if you actually believe what you say then you are literally retarded and any further discussion with you is not worth it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Problem is that if you actually believe what you say then you are literally retarded and any further discussion with you is not worth it.

Well, that to me is arrogant. For someone who's arguing he's open-minded and tolerant, that's a dismissive statement. Look, as I said I disagree with you. It doesn't mean you are stupid for doing so. It simply means we have a difference of opinions.

Frankly, I don't care what your assessment of my opinions are, they are irrelevant. How my thoughts make you feel, well since when did you ever care about my feelings? You fire off what you feel and when, the difference is that rather then standing up to those who challenge you, you would rather gang up and try to roll someone.

I find that rather sad.

How many threads are filled with the crap, BK is an idiot? Do you seriously believe it makes you look smarter? All I see is groupthink hiding behind each other's skirts.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm also dismissive of 9/11 Truthers, as are most people because what they say is demonstratably nuts. I put you on the same level of them.

Considering that other right wingers like DinoDoc or Straybow are not "ganged up" or "rolled", perhaps you think about why you are subject to a lot of people calling you a moron.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm also dismissive of 9/11 Truthers, as are most people because what they say is demonstratably nuts. I put you on the same level of them.

Well I don't feel that way about you so it puzzles me that you are so dismissive of my opinions. I think this health bill is bad news, and from what I can see a majority of Americans feel the same. I think we have legitimate concerns that haven't been adequately addressed by the health care proponents. I also feel that there are vast philosophical divides between the two, and that much of the disagreement is due to the proponents not taking the time to understand or even care about the wants and the desires of those who oppose Obamacare.

What I haven't seen from you, or theban is much genuine understanding as to why I believe what I do. The first step is to ask why, and to sincerely try to understand. That's really the only way I think we'll progress.

I'm pretty sure I can nail both yours and Imran's support of Obamacare. You both sincerely believe you are helping people, and by extension, hope to realise significant benefits associated with health care. You want to be relieved of the responsibility of trying to find coverage yourself, and to let Obama do the heavy lifting. You don't much care if there's extra cost to you associated with it, because 'it's going for a good cause'. You all have family members of various afflictions that you believe will have their suffering alleviated by Obamacare.

Am I correct?