Sarah Palin: Completely bat****

[DinoDoc]

Do you think that if you keep repeating a lie it becomes true? You can't remove what was never there to begin with.

Can you help being a moron or do you have to work at it?

[rah]

The death panal wasn't removed. What the morons were claiming was the death panal was removed. So yes the consultations were removed because most repug were to stupid not to know the difference, and the Dems were tired of explaining it. A ****ty reason to remove it but understandable due to the circumstances. But it's crap like this that tells me that any health care solution that does past muster in both houses is unlikely to be any good.

[Ben Kenobi]

A ****ty reason to remove it but understandable due to the circumstances.

I read the bill, and death panels are a good description. Forcing the elderly to attend a health panel every 5 years to 'discuss their treatment options', is bad policy. Glad to know at least one party actually gives a **** about seniors.

[rah]

That's because your reading comprehension skills are as good as your logic skills, they don't exist.
And I'll be a senior in less than 5 months, so I think I give a **** more about them then you.
There is nothing wrong with discussing treatment options. It's something seniors should be more open about since not having that discussion can lead to treatments that the patient wouldn't have wanted. IT would save money and be more considerate to the patients. Whether every 5 years is necessary is something open to debate. But in general it's fear mongers like you that will keep some seniors from every having any such discussions. That is NOT good for seniors.

[Ben Kenobi]

There is nothing wrong with discussing treatment options. It's something seniors should be more open about since not having that discussion can lead to treatments that the patient wouldn't have wanted. IT would save money and be more considerate to the patients

Fine. Don't make it mandatory. You can't force people to do something they don't want to do.

[Guynemer]

No one would have been forced to do jack ****, Ben. The consultations were voluntary. It merely would have compensated doctors for their time performing these consultations. As it stands now, I could talk with a family for an hour about these issues, and I don't paid a dime. Thanks loads, jackass.

[Lorizael]

Fine. Don't make it mandatory. You can't force people to do something they don't want to do.

It's not mandatory. The bill just says that advance care planning consultations would count as "medical and other health services." That's all.

[rah]

It doesn't matter what insults you throw, it won't improve his reading or logic skills.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Fine. Don't make it mandatory. You can't force people to do something they don't want to do.

As stated by others, it was completely voluntary. Seniors were given a choice to discuss their treatment options for no charge.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The death panal wasn't removed. What the morons were claiming was the death panal was removed. So yes the consultations were removed because most repug were to stupid not to know the difference, and the Dems were tired of explaining it. A ****ty reason to remove it but understandable due to the circumstances. But it's crap like this that tells me that any health care solution that does past muster in both houses is unlikely to be any good.

Remind me again how what is now an otherwise free no cost talk with your doctor becoming a billable activity in anyway helps the quality or costs associated with health care?

Furthermore aren't these kinds of discussions more appropriate with your lawyer in order to frame the legal arrangment. My wife and I had the clarity and forethought to make all those arrangements at the point of generating our will.

[rah]

I thought it was voluntary, but wasn't sure with all the different revisions happening. The last think I wanted to do was make a mistake there because then Ben could totally ignore the rest of the arguement and his own mistakes and focus just on my misquote and claim a total victory. You know, his typical debating style. Keep throwing crap out until you get one tiny thing right then claim victory. I like this thread better. He looks so stupid he moves on to another thread. (of course now that I've said that he'll post here again and look even more foolish.)

[rah]

Remind me again how what is now an otherwise free no cost talk with your doctor becoming a billable activity in anyway helps the quality or costs associated with health care?

Furthermore aren't these kinds of discussions more appropriate with your lawyer in order to frame the legal arrangment. My wife and I had the clarity and forethought to make all those arrangements at the point of generating our will.

One, I agree that this should start with a lawyer but there are some issues a doctor is probably the better option.

Let's say you really want a "do not revive". If you discuss it, when it happens, that extrordinary care isn't given to you. MUCHO BUCKS SAVED and better quality since you didn't want it done. And trust me if you currently sit with a doctor to discuss it now, the insurance company won't pay for it, you will. (if your doctor pushes to be paid for it)

And I think having it covered for review every 5 years is a good thing since circumstances can change.

AND most importantly, if doctors know it's covered, they'll more likely to have the conversation. One that I doubt is happening often enough now. MY doctor has NEVER asked me questions like that.
So yeah probably better with my lawyer, but I don't spend as much time with him as I do my doctor.

[Ben Kenobi]

I could talk with a family for an hour about these issues, and I don't paid a dime. Thanks loads, jackass.

As Ogie already stated, if you want to bill people for talking to them go ahead. If you don't think it's a good idea to bill them directly for your time, then why are you billing the state?

I have no problems paying my doc when I go see him. He should be paid for providing the time. Should other people pay him because I stop in for a visit? No.

[Ben Kenobi]

MY doctor has NEVER asked me questions like that.

Get a better doctor. Mine scheduled a checkup on me, after dad passed away and we discussed DNRs and the rest.

[rah]

Are you going to admit you were wrong about it being a mandatory death panel, or are you going to just ignore that and move on to something else like you always do?