Israel's right to Defend

[Bereta_Eder]

Your knowledge of history is lacking.

Interesting so france the so called quigmire of arabs amnd muslim fundamentalism has the largest population of jews in the world by percentage. so much for the so called antisemtisim there

[Bereta_Eder]

btw noone yet answered which exactly american interests are served by supporing a genocidal regime the likes of israel?

very simple question. if the description of truth disturbs you then answer this question: which US interests are served by defending israel?

[Ming]

Simple answer... It's a large voting block in the US.

[Dauphin]

So is the Muslim population (to an extent the Israel -Palestine matters to them). There is more to it than just votes.

[SlowwHand]

Interesting so france the so called quigmire of arabs amnd muslim fundamentalism has the largest population of jews in the world by percentage. so much for the so called antisemtisim there

Have you considered moderation, or do you think Intervention is required?

[Dauphin]

On a more serious note. Iran qualified for the World Cup, which the U.S. is hosting. Israel are still in contention to qualify. Awkward.

[Provost Harrison]

They'll move the goalposts (pun might be intended) by only allowing teams to be named by their first letter. There, team I...problem solved :-D

[N35t0r]

CBP will refuse entry to the Iranian team, problem solved.

[Uncle Sparky]

tRump declares truce... Iran & Israel don't.

“I’m not happy with them (Israel). I’m not happy with Iran, either, but I’m really unhappy with Israel going out this morning,” Trump said. “We basically have two countries that have been fighting so long and so hard that they don’t know what the f--- they’re doing.”

The president then took to his Truth Social platform to warn Israel to end its attacks.

“ISRAEL. DO NOT DROP THOSE BOMBS. IF YOU DO IT IS A MAJOR VIOLATION,” Trump posted. “BRING YOUR PILOTS HOME, NOW!”

And now tRump is off to NATO meeting to see if he can break up that alliance.

[Geronimo]

That's all awful news but thank you for spotlighting Trump's special brand of diplomatic incompetence.

[Dauphin]

Actually I find that tone and demeanour quite palatable. He’s right, and frustrated like most people.

Not sure that other world leaders could pull that off, but in this circumstance it works positively for me.

[Geronimo]

I'm surprised you see it that way. I certainly find the goal of getting Israel (and Iran) to stop fighting desirable but how can he call it a major violation (of what?) without regarding the entire campaign as a major violation?

[Bereta_Eder]

what's very funny with this clown is that everyone tries to kiss his behind (because they can manioulate him blind) , but they do so in such a eye popping evident sleazy manner it backfires only on trump

he is exactly like kim yon un by that point. no difference

[Geronimo]

If you are in an occupied gheto you have no option but to attack.

The way I understand it is that israelis steal land. it is normal to fight back. The bad thing is that they get the backing from the US. Why? Now there is no oil to be had from the middle east at least not of any concern to the US.

Or the US is really a theocratic fundamentalist society that believes the bible. There is no other explanation

Palestinians attack not because they hate jews but because Israelis steal their land and they are used by third players for their onw end but what is just remains clear.


I am not playing holier than thou. Greece is probbaly the most solid european ally Israel has right now but f the greek gov in that regard

Immediately prior to the planning and execution of Hamas' 7 October "successful military operation" from out of Gaza, Gaza could not be characterized as any kind of "occupied ghetto". Israel did not meaningfully occupy any part of Gaza and the Rafah border crossing was controlled by Egypt not Isreal. The Gazan's situation sucked surely. They were almost entirely surrounded by a state historically hostile to their leadership and occupying land that they disputed as having a claim to.

Compare this to the state of Israel's predicament: A state entirely surrounded by states historically hostile to their leadership and occupying land that they disputed as having a claim to. If Gaza's plight was unbearable and required attacks on Israel's civilians, then I suppose Israel's plight was likewise unbearable and would require attacks on their neighbors' civilians by the same token especially as part of an immediate response against one of those neighbors to a fresh attack by that neighbor which the political leadership of that neighbor characterized as a "successful military operation" against Israel.
As it happens, I entirely reject the idea that anybody had any excuse to attack any civilians residing in any of these states and quasi states.

[Aeson]

It's like watching someone trying to herd cats via social media posts, after pointing a laser pointer at a disco ball.

[Bereta_Eder]

geronimo, your pattern of thought is so alien to mine, I literaly have to twist my brain to understand you. Like twisting an ankle or something.
it take massive effort from my part.

having said that,
I agree that attacks on civilians are never justified. However from what i understand there was a vast arrey of land occupied by palestianians that have been expelled from. this means that they have the right to try and get it back.


From that point on you're getting all balkan on me. In balkan warfare we aim for the total anihilation of the enemy (ethnic cleansing included of course). That's not right and why should the middle east follow our lead. (disclaimer, the notion of nation state is a european construct and we are late bloomers but that's a very long discussion)


it all comes down to possibilties. The palestinians have been chased from their land. they have the righ tto reclaim it. palestinians can't genocide jews. It seems you have to be german (or german affiliated) to do that. israelis can and DO genocide palestinians


Ethics means you stand in defence of the person that is being genocided.



period.

[Geronimo]

I just desperately wish that they could all let go of hate and ethnic intolerance and accept each other as neighbors in a democratic one state solution. the 2 state division sucked for the successor of the British Raj and it sucked massive donkey balls for the ending of the British Mandate. Of course I am an unreformable dreamer

[Dauphin]

Moving comment to quote:

I'm surprised you see it that way. I certainly find the goal of getting Israel (and Iran) to stop fighting desirable but how can he call it a major violation (of what?) without regarding the entire campaign as a major violation?
.

At the base human emotion level of just some comments on the lawn with no other context it actually works. A man frustrated with the idiocy of others and venting with f-bombs. It’s relatable and not objectionable.

At the higher rational level. It was a predictable outcome. He was warned of this outcome. It was hubris to think he could control the outcome. He helped create the conditions of this outcome. He is blaming others, and walking away rather than owning it or fixing it. His deal making ego is hurt. On that level it’s a huge failure of his foreign policy and he’s shirking responsibility for that failure.

I hold both views at the same time.

[Bereta_Eder]

of course hate and ethnic intolerance is bad. I believe that a two state solution would be feasable IF BOTH PALESTINIANS and israelis were serious about it. Wasn't during clinton era that an accord was signbed? with arafat and some israeli guy that was later assasinated?

the israeli was, not the palestinian.


Allso you threw some british in there. I don't know if they in what goes on now. I know they messed up cyprus and gave up the ionian islands in real politik because they were going to get kicked out.

I don't really like the british but noone does, believe me. unless maybe slowwhand in texas