Apparently, we now have secret police...

[Berzerker]

entering the country illegally ain't temporary obedience

[Berzerker]

The topic was James Madison's words so 'moderate' giblets.

'they owe, on one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their protection and advantage.'

If a border agent catches someone crossing the border illegally they get to stop them, not let them in for months or years of 'due process'

[Berzerker]

2 people brought up Madison and I'm the one who gets moderated

[Geronimo]

Certain students being deported didn't get in the country illegally either Berz

[dannubis]

So, king of idiots, how come this Syrian dude got abducted ?
He had a valid visa ?

[Aeson]

entering the country illegally ain't temporary obedience

And how do you determine who is illegal and who isn't? (HINT: IT INVOLVES DUE PROCESS)

Once you start deporting people without due process, ANYONE CAN BE DEPORTED FOR ANY REASON.

[-Jrabbit]

Exactly so.

[giblets]

entering the country illegally ain't temporary obedience

You're an illegal. I don't need proof, because you're here illegally. I'm sending you to El Salvador to a prison where you will be stripped naked and humiliated.

[Berzerker]

you're not letting me cross the border

[giblets]

ICE's jurisdiction is not limited to the border.

[Berzerker]

And how do you determine who is illegal and who isn't? (HINT: IT INVOLVES DUE PROCESS)

Once you start deporting people without due process, ANYONE CAN BE DEPORTED FOR ANY REASON.

Thats a different matter, Madison was talking about people here legally - their 'temporary obedience'. This guy is a green card holder accused of crimes and he is being processed. We have people guarding the border now preventing people from entering illegally. We are not obliged to let them in much less afford them months or years of 'due process'.

[-Jrabbit]

He is here legally, has been for years (originally under a student visa) and HE IS NOT ACCUSED OF ANY CRIMES. No charges have been filed.
Your attempt to make this discussion about illegal border crossings is stupid and frankly, kind of insulting.

[Ming]

Yep... in Berz's and Trump's world, due process means nothing. Hell, Trump has been accused of many crimes and you notice he isn't being "processed.

[Dauphin]

Thats a different matter, Madison was talking about people here legally - their 'temporary obedience'. This guy is a green card holder accused of crimes and he is being processed. We have people guarding the border now preventing people from entering illegally. We are not obliged to let them in much less afford them months or years of 'due process'.

What about US citizen who get detained overnight. Didn't even look at his ID that they confiscated from him.

Immigration agents arrested a U.S. citizen and created warrants after an arrest, lawyers say in court - Chicago Sun-Times

The 22 cases include Chicago resident Julio Noriega, 54, a U.S. citizen who, according to court documents, was arrested, handcuffed and spent most of the night at an ICE processing center in suburban Broadview. He was never questioned about his citizenship and was only released after agents looked at his ID.

“I was born in Chicago, Illinois, and am a United States citizen,” Noriega said in his statement, adding that on Jan. 31, after buying pizza in Berwyn he was surrounded by ICE agents and arrested. Officers took away his wallet, which had his ID and Social Security card. “They then handcuffed me and pushed me into a white van where other people were handcuffed as well.”

[Ming]

Berz and Trump don't seem to care if US citizens get swept up... as long as they can remove brown people from the county.

[Ming]

If a judge disagrees with Trump, they are traitors and he just ignores them. He has no respect for the laws of the land. As he has proven MANY TIMES in the past. In his opinion the only good judge is one that he appointed AND agrees with him. And I love when judges he appointed disagree with him.

[Aeson]

Thats a different matter, Madison was talking about people here legally - their 'temporary obedience'. This guy is a green card holder accused of crimes and he is being processed. We have people guarding the border now preventing people from entering illegally. We are not obliged to let them in much less afford them months or years of 'due process'.

Due process is how you determine if someone is here legally or not.

[EPW]

Thanks guys, you hurt Berz's feelings and now he quit being the commissioner the poly fantasy baseball league.

[giblets]

Would be sad to see him leave after twenty five years over this

[-Jrabbit]

This thread is about the federal government detaining, transporting, and deporting people without due process. They are using troops wearing unmarked clothing and refusing to identify themselves to seize legal US residents who are not accused of any wrongdoing. No actual charges, no Miranda rights, no access to a lawyer, no court appearance. Immediately flown hundreds of miles away - at taxpayer expense - without cause and without notice.

Basically, the government is kidnapping people and daring anyone to stop them.

Berz, if you want to discuss border enforcement, please take it elsewhere. Unless you want to have a factual discussion about the rule of law and due process.

[SlowwHand]

Narcs have seemingly been around forever.

[-Jrabbit]

"Kidnap" is a strong term, and I don't use it lightly.

US laws define the specific procedures and requirements for detaining and/or deporting someone. Virtually none of them are being followed, to wit:

Any person, citizen or not, is entitled by law to a hearing in front of a judge and to legal representation. In cases involving deportation, they must be given the opportunity to leave on their own. By law, all of this is required before a person can be deported.

Currently, the administration is not providing detainees with ANY of these guaranteed legal rights. They are arresting people without warrants, detaining them and then flying them to a prison in another country, all without ANY due process.

By law, the legal definition of this is kidnapping.