Apparently, we now have secret police...

[Ming]

This shouldn't surprise anybody since Trump has shown he doesn't give a damn about the law.
He believes he can do anything he wants, legal or not.
And when the judges try to stop him, he calls them names and demands they be impeached.
And the Republicans don't seem to care.

[Dauphin]

Narcs have seemingly been around forever.

Sloww, I'm interested in understanding your position, as I would like to engage and persuade you of the need for due process and protections that are being ignored. Rather than be seen to be judging or lecturing you and making a tribalistic 'us vs them' discussion, I would like to see things through your eyes in order to help better quantify where we actually disagree. Not where we presume we disagree.

Do you disagree with what is being said, or think we are missing other important points? And if so, what are they?

[SlowwHand]

I think all points of the Constitution are intended for legal citizens. My opinion.

[Dauphin]

But not for persons present in the US legally?

Say I was in the US legally, I am arrested for an alleged crime while I am there. Am I presumed innocent? Should I have a right to a fair trial? Or do i not get those rights because I am not a citizen?

[SlowwHand]

Illegals have broken the law.

[N35t0r]

This statement is true

[Ming]

Illegals have broken the law.

While that is true, there are plenty of people here LEGALLY. And they have rights. Something Trump and his gestapo seem to be ignoring.

[Dauphin]

Illegals have broken the law.

My question. If I were arrested in the U.S. for an alleged crime. Should I, a non-citizen, have protections under the Constitution, in your opinion? e.g. a right to due process, fair trial, legal counsel, etc?

[SlowwHand]

My question. If I were arrested in the U.S. for an alleged crime. Should I, a non-citizen, have protections under the Constitution, in your opinion? e.g. a right to due process, fair trial, legal counsel, etc?

Deportation

[dannubis]

Before or after a trial ?

[SlowwHand]

While that is true, there are plenty of people here LEGALLY. And they have rights. Something Trump and his gestapo seem to be ignoring.

Legals despise illegals more than I do.
They walked the walk.

[Dauphin]

Deportation

Even if I committed no actual crime? Just on a claim that I committed a crime? With no evidence presented?

Bearing in mind that you have no way of knowing if I am guilty or not without due process.

[dannubis]

Ding ding ding... winner. Now let's see if the maga crowd is willing to see reason in this.

[Ming]

Trump doesn't care if they actually committed a crime... His jack boot cronies do whatever he wants, even if it is against the law. Something the judges in AMERICA are calling him out for.

[Dauphin]

Yes, but I am hoping Sloww does. Even if we disagree on what to do, I'm hoping we agree on what is not acceptable.

[Dauphin]

Sloww, the thing that concerns me about your stance - that Constitutional rights only applies to citizens - is that you think it would be constitutional if law enforcement did the following to me shortly after entering the country legally, say while I am vacation in the U.S.:

1) Stop me and confiscate all my possessions (Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment)
2) Arrest and incarcerate me indefinitely without explanation (Fifth Amendment)
3) Deny me a fair trial or legal counsel (Sixth Amendment)
4) Subject me to cruel and unusual punishment (Eighth Amendment)
5) Having been convicted of a crime (without due process) put me into forced labour (Thirteenth Amendment)
6) Permit me no equal protections under the law (Fourteenth Amendment)

Would you feel comfortable travelling to the US if you were not a US citizen and protections from such actions was not a thing?

Fourth Amendment
Every subject has a right to be secure from all unreasonable searches, and seizures of his person, his houses, his papers, and all his possessions. All warrants, therefore, are contrary to this right, if the cause or foundation of them be not previously supported by oath or affirmation; and if the order in the warrant to a civil officer, to make search in suspected places, or to arrest one or more suspected persons, or to seize their property, be not accompanied with a special designation of the persons or objects of search, arrest, or seizure: and no warrant ought to be issued but in cases, and with the formalities, prescribed by the laws

Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Eighth Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Thirteenth Amendment
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Fourteenth Amendment
No State shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
​

[Dauphin]

By all means you can deport people who are in the country illegally. Deny entry to those who are attempting illegal entry. Tighten the laws on who is allowed in even.

Most will say you should.

Just don't take away basic rights in the process.